ANSTHRLD - Re: heraldry stuff

Timothy A. McDaniel tmcd at crl.com
Fri Sep 4 11:38:40 PDT 1998


Carolle Ternus <cternus at texas.net> / radegund of tours wrote:
> 1.  what copyright rules, if any, exist regarding heraldry.  for
> example, i want to sell t-shirts with the gold thingy that is an
> identifying part of Kingdom X's heraldry.  can i do that?  can i do
> that as long as i don't put the whole shebang on the t-shirt?  that
> sort of thing.

I ... erm, sorry.  i suspect that the only armory that's possibly
copyrighted is the sca's arms: yellow field, green laurel wreath.
anyone who wanted copyright protection would have to file for it.
i've never heard of that happening, except i dimly recall some mention
of trademarks and copyright in old board of directors' minutes.

now i *would* like to comment on correct use of heraldry.  broadly
speaking, a coat of arms says "i'm the owner of these arms".  if you
wear a t-shirt or tabard or whatever with the arms of ansteorra, say,
you're not saying "i love ansteorra" or "i'm an ansteorran".  you're
saying "i'm the king / queen of ansteorra".  (that's a broad
statement, with a few exceptions.  if you're wearing a heraldic tabard
with those arms on front, back, and sleeves, you're saying you're
their herald on duty, their voice.  if you're carrying a banner on a
battlefield, you're their banner-bearer.  some possessions, some
times, got arms put on them.)

some kingdoms have registered a "populace ensign", specifically
designed for the populace to show their support, for the populace to
say "i'm an x-ian", "i love x-land".  in ansteorra's case, it's "or, a
mullet of five greater and five lesser points within a bordure
sable.".  yellow field, the ansteorran star in the center, black
border around the edge of the shield.  i think that some people put
that design on their war tabards, nu?  you can consult a heraldic
artist (gunnora, say) to get a good depiction -- the bordure should
not be too narrow, for example.

as a real-life example of the distinction: i am amazed every year
about how many kings of scotland attend steppes warlord, and how few
scotsmen there are.  that's because 3-5 tents usually fly the arms of
scotland, "or, a lion rampant within a double-tressure
fleury-counterfleury gules", and nobody uses the period saint andrew's
flag used by period scots, "azure, a saltire argent" (blue field,
white x extending to the edges of the flag).  not as good an example
as i would like, since king george vi gave the scots people in general
the right to use the scots arms to show support for the monarch(y) of
the uk.

you may say that i'm being too persnickety (people often do, i find!):
t-shirts are not period, and so it's silly to insist on heraldic
correctness on them.
- - if a kingdom goes to the trouble to register an ensign for use by
  the populace, i think it only courtesy to *use* that ensign.
- - ensigns are often simpler than the full arms.  for example, they
  don't have the laurel wreath and crown (for kingdoms and
  principalities).  so it's less work for you.
- - even if they're about equal in ease of design, it's no skin off your
  nose to do the correct one, nu?  (possible reply: not if the
  customers want the arms and not the ensign!  counter reply: if the
  ensign has some fame (e.g., you see it on lots of fighting tabards),
  it'll work as well.)
- - i think the arms / ensign distinction ought to be reinforced.

your call.  unless you're in vending for the fun of it, you'll
porbably have to listen to what the customer's bucks say and ignore
me.

> 2.  is Dame an acceptable title of address for a mistress of arms/
> laurel/pelican in this kingdom?  i know it is acceptable for female
> knights.  if it is, does that mean that Sir is an acceptable title
> of address for masters of arms/laurel/pelican?  i kinda doubt it,
> but i thought i'd ask.

in general, titles are regulated by laurel sovereign of arms.  from
http://www.sca.org/heraldry/titles.html : "In addition to the standard
titles listed in Appendix C, the title Dame may be used instead of
Mistress by any female member of the Order of the Laurel, Pelican, or
Chivalry.".  that does not mean that male members (stop snickering)
can be addressed as "sir".

daniel "feeling low" de lincolia
- -- 
Tim McDaniel.   Reply to tmcd at crl.com;
    if that fail, tmcd at austin.ibm.com is my work account.
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