ANSTHRLD - Grant question

Tue Oct 12 11:49:48 PDT 1999

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On Wednesday, December 31, 1969 12:00 PM, Amy & Bill Morris
[SMTP:awmorris at flash.net] wrote:
> As to order of precedence, I have a question of my own.  Where can I =
get
> a current Ansteorran order?  The kingdom web site has an order of =
march,
> but these differ from strict precedence in most kingdoms. The order
> itself seems a bit odd since it puts Ladies and Lord of the Rose =
after
> AoAs, together with Lions.  The Rose is a peerage order, and I had =
been
> under the impression that the Lion of Ansteorra was a =
non-precedential
> order.

The Order of the Rose (no longer the Ladies of the Rose since the =
induction
of Duke Hector into their order when Duchess Rowan won crown) is a
non-Armigerous order within Ansteorra.  Other kingdoms choose to make =
this a
peerage, but that is not the case in Ansteorra.

The Lions of Ansteorra are also a non-Armigerous order.  This was very =
clear
when Jonathan and Willow created the order.

For a precise order of precedence for awards within Ansteorra I would
contact Zodiacus.  But in 'short' version I believe that it can be =
broken
down as : (male titles used to make life easier for typing, not for any
other reason)

1) Crown
2) Crown Prince
3) Duke
4) Count
5) Viscount (obviously all of these are imported or from the days of =
the
Principality of Ansteorra)
6) Barons in Fief
7) Knight, Master at Arms, Master of the Laurel, Master of the Pelican
8) Letters Patent
9) Court Barons
10) Iris of Merit, Star of Merit, Centurions of the Sable Star, White =
Scarf
of Ansteorra
11) Grant of Arms (called Grants of Rank in Ansteorra)
12) King's Gauntlet, Queen's Glove
13) Sable Thistle, Sable Crane
14) Award of Arms
15) King's Archer, Golden Bridle, Sable Falcon, Queens Rapier, Lions of
Ansteorra, Order of the Rose, Motley Sash

Now the prestige a particular order receives is another thing entirely. =
 Few
would disagree I suspect that of the awards in Ansteorra the Lion is =
the
most prestigious, and yet it is among the lowliest in title (but I bet =
you
can't name someone who has one who isn't a Peer in their own right ;)

Also, remember, that while the Order of the Rose is non-Armigerous, =
ever
member is also at least a Count/ess.  As such they would March higher =
in the
order than that Order would imply (just as you would march higher in =
the
order if you had an Iris of Merit and a simple Award of Arms).

I've no doubt I missed something and that wiser heralds than I will =
correct
me, but that covers the bases.

Timothy of Glastonbury
Prot=E9g=E9 to Viscount Galen of Bristol (7th Viscount Von Drachenwald)
Off the top of my head, without references, so pardon any mistakes.

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<TITLE>RE: ANSTHRLD - Grant question</TITLE>
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On Wednesday, December 31, 1969 =
12:00 PM, Amy & Bill Morris [SMTP:awmorris at flash.net] wrote:
 > As to order of precedence, I have a question of my =
own.  Where can I get
 > a current Ansteorran order?  The kingdom web site =
has an order of march,
 > but these differ from strict precedence in most =
kingdoms. The order
 > itself seems a bit odd since it puts Ladies and Lord of =
the Rose after
 > AoAs, together with Lions.  The Rose is a peerage =
order, and I had been
 > under the impression that the Lion of Ansteorra was a =
non-precedential
 > order.

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">The Order of the Rose (no longer =
the Ladies of the Rose since the induction of Duke Hector into their =
order when Duchess Rowan won crown) is a non-Armigerous order within =
Ansteorra.  Other kingdoms choose to make this a peerage, but that =
is not the case in Ansteorra.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">The Lions of Ansteorra are also =
a non-Armigerous order.  This was very clear when Jonathan and =
Willow created the order.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">For a precise order of =
precedence for awards within Ansteorra I would contact Zodiacus.  =
But in 'short' version I believe that it can be broken down as : (male =
titles used to make life easier for typing, not for any other =
reason)</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">1) Crown</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">2) Crown Prince</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">3) Duke</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">4) Count</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">5) Viscount (obviously all of =
these are imported or from the days of the Principality of =
Ansteorra)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">6) Barons in Fief</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">7) Knight, Master at Arms, =
Master of the Laurel, Master of the Pelican</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">8) Letters Patent</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">9) Court Barons</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">10) Iris of Merit, Star of =
Merit, Centurions of the Sable Star, White Scarf of Ansteorra</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">11) Grant of Arms (called =
Grants of Rank in Ansteorra)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">12) King's Gauntlet, Queen's =
Glove</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">13) Sable Thistle, Sable =
Crane</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">14) Award of Arms</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">15) King's Archer, Golden =
Bridle, Sable Falcon, Queens Rapier, Lions of Ansteorra, Order of the =
Rose, Motley Sash</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Now the prestige a particular =
order receives is another thing entirely.  Few would disagree I =
suspect that of the awards in Ansteorra the Lion is the most =
prestigious, and yet it is among the lowliest in title (but I bet you =
can't name someone who has one who isn't a Peer in their own right =
;)</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Also, remember, that while the =
Order of the Rose is non-Armigerous, ever member is also at least a =
Count/ess.  As such they would March higher in the order than that =
Order would imply (just as you would march higher in the order if you =
had an Iris of Merit and a simple Award of Arms).</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">I've no doubt I missed something =
and that wiser heralds than I will correct me, but that covers the =
bases.</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Timothy of Glastonbury</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Prot=E9g=E9 to Viscount Galen =
of Bristol (7th Viscount Von Drachenwald)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Off the top of my head, without =
references, so pardon any mistakes.</FONT>
</P>

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