ANSTHRLD - Precedence Question

[jruble]

On Friday, October 22, 1999 10:24 PM, Alisandre wrote:
> Which leads to a related question--am I wrong, and *is* it the 
precedence
> of the
> Barony, rather than personal precedence, which counts for landeds? Do
> they march
> in order of founding of the Baronies, or by their date of landedness? If
> in order
> of Baronial founding, then Darius is probably right.

I always march them by precedence of the Barony they represent.  The 
'office' is what is marching, not just the individual nobles, who will 
have a lower precedence when they step down.  This means it goes in the 
order of the dates the branches attained baronial status.  Thus, Stargate 
always marches first behind the Royal Family in this kingdom, followed by 
Steppes, Bjornsburg, Bordermarch, Bryn Gwlad, Namron, Eldern Hills, etc.

I tend to think of Vicars and Vicaresses as I do officers.  Just as a 
branch level officer is referred to with the honorifics due AoA level 
awards ('Lady Seneschal, Lord Sable Storm"), a Vicaress would be treated 
with the honorifics of the office she is filling in for, minus the actual 
title of Baroness.  She becomes, then, a Grant level officer like all 
baronesses and in the old style would be referred to as "Her Ladyship, the 
Vicaress'.  Or possibly 'Her Excellency, the Vicaress', except that this 
confuses the issue.

Like all officers, when she steps down from the post, she loses the title 
and the honorifics.  She is back to being 'Lady Blearyeyed', until such 
time as the Crown decides to recognize her deeds in this and other things 
and grant her a higher title.

Marching... My first instinct is to put them in the exact position they 
are filling in for, since the precedence is based upon that of the Barony. 
 But it is a very human reaction to see the Baron and Baroness as the 
personification of the Barony, its status and honor.  A Vicar is not the 
Baron, therefore his marching where the Baron should march seems illicit, 
somehow.  And I can say this from experience.  When I have called the 
Landed Nobles before the Throne, such as at coronations, any Vicars or 
Vicaresses normally stay in their seats.  I then have to call them 
specifically before they will come.  THEY feel they are not the Baron or 
Baroness, that the position they are filling in for is not "Landed Noble", 
but "Super Seneschal".  When they finally come up to stand with the Landed 
Nobles, they appear uncomfortable.

So for a March of Precedence, I would put the Barons/Baronesses in order 
of branch baronial status, THEN any Vicars/Vicaresses in order of branch 
baronial status, then Peers, then Court Baronies in order of award date, 
etc...  This way proper respect is paid the office of Vicar without 
forcing the vicar into a spot people perceive as restricted to a "noble of 
the blood".

Ulf Gunnarsson

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