ANSTHRLD - Re: armory check

[tmcd at jump.net]

On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, Eirik <eirik at surfamerica.net> asked me for a
conflict check for
> Per pale dovetailed azure and or a decresent argent and a mullet of
> 5 points azure.

It's perfectly fine to send such requests to the Ansteorran Heralds
list, or SCA Heralds.  I'm sending this to Anst. Her. to liven it up.

Mullets are of 5 points by default.  It doesn't hurt to specify it
just to be sure, but it'll get stripped before going up.  The SCA
standard blazon is

    Per pale dovetailed azure and or, a decrescent argent and
    a mullet azure.

Search strategy:

It's an uncommon field.  I looked in
    Field division - Per pale - Azure - and or 
There's only one "dovetailed" with "per pale", Edward d'Orleans, and
he's clear (type and number).  (I searched the page in Netscape via
ctrl-F, for "dove".)

I happened to discuss dovetailed and other complex lines of division
on SCA Heralds recently, so I had a chart.  I also searched some
precedents.  Dovetailed gets no CD from raguly, embattled, or
embattled variants like "bretessed" (or I presume
"counter-embattled").

Bu no "per pale" raguly or embattled either.  Thus, against any
registered coat anywhere in the Ordinary, we get 1 CD for the field.
Thus, anything else has to be heraldically identical.  That makes
searching MUCH easier.

In particular, I can look either at crescents or mullets, but don't
have to check both.  I went to
    Mullet - Uncharged - 1 - Azure 

Any charging, change of number, or change of tincture would get us the
second CD needed to clear it, so this is the only category I had to
check.  I then used Netscape ctrl-F to look for "cres", because I
can't think of anything that looks like a crescent that wouldn't have
"cres" in the spelling.  Only 5 items matched, no conflicts.

Come to think of it, mullets can have complicated conflicts too.  Some
mullets get no CD from others.  From a previous chart,

Mullet of 3 points: illegal
       of 4 points versus caltrop: no CD (identical)
                          compass star: no CD (long rays in same places)
                          mullet of 5 pnoints: no CD
       of 5 points versus estoile: CD
                          sun: CD
                          mullet of 6 points: no CD
                          mullet of 7 points: no CD
                          mullet of 8 points: CD
                          compass star: CD
et cetera.  However, the Ordinary category doesn't distinguish by
number of points.  Even "Compass star" says simply "see Mullet".  So
we picked up all cases.

However, just to be surely paranoid, I popped over to
    Crescent - 1 - Argent - Decrescent 
(120 items) and searched for "mull".  About 20 coats with both.  No
prob that I saw.

Looks clear all around.


Style comments: cliched Typical SCA.  (At least the mullet isn't
within and conjoined to the decrescent -- more TSCA, but at least then
there's a chance of conflict with the Turkish and Singaporian flags.)

- "Dovetailed" is a post-period invention.  The only reason it's
  registerable is because it's specifically listed in the Rules for
  Submission as an example of non-period items that have nevertheless
  been registered for long enough in the SCA that Laurel has ruled
  them SCA-compatible.

  I'd normally suggest just "embattled" (that has the virtue of not
  having to be conflict-checked, and at least there were rare cases in
  period), but the rest of the design is so TSCA that I'd rather ask
  the client whether they would be amenable to a complete redesign.

- "Per pale <complex>" is, in some cases, a hack to avoid "appearance
  of marshalling".  That appearance is exacerbated by

- "Per pale" between two different charges, especially in two
  different tinctures.  Cliche.

- Decrescent.  Crescents, "U", were common in period.  Decrescents and
  increscents were very rare at best.

Mind you, a mullet is a common period charge, whether of 5 or 6
points.  Often they were "pierced", with a little hole in the center
-- an artistic treatment called a "spur rowel", but not worth a CD.
Crescents, as I pointed out, are great.  Lots of fine period style
designs could be made with them both.  A field semy of mullets, a
crescent.  A field semy of crescents, a mullet.  A crescent charged
with a mullet; "three crescents each charged with a spur rowel" I can
date to about 1300.  "A crescent and on a chief two spur-rowels" --
another design I can date to about 1300.

HOWEVER.  I should make it clear that the client's design appears
registerable.  Furthermore, the client has to live with the final
results of whatever they register -- *I* don't have to deal with it
but once, to conflict-check it.  The ideas in the previous paragraph
are just SUGGESTIONS in case the client is amenable.  If the client
has their heart set on Their Design, so be it.

Daniel de Lincolia
-- 
Tim McDaniel (home); Reply-To: tmcd at jump.net; 
if that fail, my work address is tmcd at us.ibm.com.
 "To join the Clueless Club, send a followup to this message quoting every-
 thing up to and including this sig!" -- Jukka.Korpela at hut.fi (Jukka Korpela)

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