ANSTHRLD - Re: Anti-anti-oppressor rant

Amy and Bill Morris awmorris at
Sun Jan 23 07:38:26 PST 2000

And in response to mentioning 'Vivat Ansteorra', another rant on a tender

The reason some perfectly respectably people refuse to 'vivat Ansteorra' is
that the evidence tends to make that construction post-period.  Vivat and
Vivant were used for people, the literal sense being 'long live xxx', the
intention being to wish a long life for the current holder of a position.
Unless one expects Ansteorra to die and be replaced, 'vivat Ansteorra' is
both ludicrous and non-period.

I realize that the usual order of cheers is a firmly established Ansteorran
tradition.  As a practical matter it would be far easier to replace 'vivat'
than to abolish it.  Not that I really expect either to happen.

Anticipating objections to changing 'our holy traditions';  I must ask what
happened to our past 'holy traditions'?  Past traditions now dead and buried
include;  using Tolkien to document names for Elven personas, local
selection of officers with no input from kingdom, all knights must be male
or have masculine personas, and of course Melusine Woods is a superb
resource for period dance reconstruction.

Returning to subject, it is also slightly strange to separately cheer both
the crown and the kingdom.  It seems to imply that they are separate and
unrelated items.

We do not (and should not) change our traditions lightly or easily.  But I
would like to be able to join in cheering Ansteorra without wincing in


> I did ask someone knowledgable in Latin about whether we should
> "vivat" or "vivant" Ansteorra.  His opinion was that although
> Ansteorra comprises many people, there is just one Ansteorra, so it
> should be the singular "vivat".
> Church Latin is "vivat", classical is "wiwat", I think.  Church is
> more appropriate for a medieval setting, and even if I were wrong and
> "wiwat" were more authentic, it would still sound weeny, weedy, and
> weaky.
> Danielis Lindonium (with a tip o' the nib to _1066 And All That_)

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