ANSTHRLD - Waldorf

[Derek and Barb]

Outstanding!!!! I wish to thank everyone who has helped me out here. I have just started attending the commenting meetings here in Northkeep and plan to continue (already buying books!). hope I can find some of the ones referenced here. Once again thanks and you will be seeing the forms very soon!!

Dietrich von Waldorf (soon!)

-----Original Message-----
From:	Kathleen O'Brien [SMTP:kobrien at bmc.com]
Sent:	Friday, July 14, 2000 5:31 PM
To:	heralds at ansteorra.org
Subject:	Re: ANSTHRLD - Waldorf

At 05:06 PM 7/14/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Brechenmacher, Josef Karlmann. 
>Etmologisches Worterbuch der Deutschen Familiennamen. 
>Limburg a. d. Lahn: C.A. Stark-Verlag, 1957-60.
>
>page 737 under Waldorf gives 
>Fritz Waltorf from 1354.

Awesome!  Note that this example does not contain the "von".  But the
citation from Namenwelt gives support for it as a placename, so using "von"
should be fine.

>Given the Germans love of switching out T 
>and D in names like Cunrad/Cunrat 
>Waldorf should be an acceptable spelling.
>This practice CAN be documented with examples
>if needed.

One or two quickie dated examples should cut off any questions at the pass.  

>A quite look at Bahlow "Dictionary of German
>Names" and Adolf Socin didn't turn up anything.
>
>Bahlow, Hans. Deutschland Geographiche Namenwelt.
>page 516 under Walbeck mentions Waldorf related
>to Walathorp.  Wala is dated from 1145 and page
>194 under Haldorf dates Halthorp from 1020.
>This makes me think Walathorp is the oldest form
>of the name.
>
>So Waldorf should be usable and the first name
>has been documented.

Good going, Magnus!

Dietrich, all of the sources we've cited are on the "no photocopy" list
except for the web page I pointed to for your given name.  You will need to
print out the 1st page and the page with "Dietrich" on it and include a
copy of each with each copy of your name submission.  Asterisk is most
grateful if you make her life easier by running a highlighter over the line
that supports your submission.  

Make sure the (1) URL and (2) access date are on each printout page.  Most
web browsers do this for you.  We need the 1st page of the article since it
contains the article name, author, copyright, etc.

Looks like your name is good to go.  Remember to summarize the
documentation Magnus cited (printing out his message and attaching it to
your submission may be a good idea).  Also, you will want to include the
examples I gave of [given name] von [placename] forms that I cited.

Yeah, it may look like a pain in the neck to distill this all down for your
forms, but the more support we give for your desired name, the less likely
it is to have problems.  (This is the greased wheel effect.  Or in college
terms, the 'grade by weight' theory - it's not nice but some folks work
this way and it keeps them off our backs.)

On the form itself, you probably want to put something like: 

----------------------------------------------------------

Dietrich - German masculine given name dated to 1318 in 
Talan Gwynek (Brian M. Scott), "Medieval German Given Names from Silesia"
(WWW: 1998-1999).  
http://www.panix.com/~mittle/names/talan/bahlow/

von Waldorf - German locative byname.  Brechenmacher (page 737 under
Waldorf) dates "Fritz Waltorf" to 1354.  Bahlow, Hans. Deutschland
Geographiche Namenwelt (page 516 under Walbeck) mentions Waldorf related to
Walathorp.  "Wala" is dated to 1145 (*****).  The same source (page 194
under Haldorf) dates "Halthorp" to 1020.

Examples of this name construction from Bahlow (Dictionary of German Names,
English translation) include:

Name                  Date, Source,   Page,   Header      Meaning
Hainrich von Raste   (1244, Bahlow-N, p. 439, Rast)       from Rast
Bert von Rode        (1257, Bahlow-N, p. 462, Röder)      from Rödern
Thideman von Putten  (1300, Bahlow-N, p. 429, Pütter)     from Pütte
Lorencz von Schonaw  (1381, Bahlow-N, p. 503, Schöner(t)) from Schönau
N. von Czirnau       (1413, Bahlow-N, p. 570, Tscherner)  from Tscherna

----------------------------------------------------------

**** Magnus, is the "Wala" date also under "Walbeck"?

And looking this distillation over, I would definitely attach a printout of
Magnus's email to your submission.  That way, if Laurel/Pelican has any
questions, they can read the unabridged version.

I think distilling all the research into a nice concise, but thorough,
format is the hardest part of all of this...

You need to make 5 copies of your name submission.  Keep one (the post
awful has eaten forms before...).  Give the other 4 to your local herald.
One gets kept in your local files, the other 3 he/she sends to kingdom.
What happens to these 3?  One goes in the kingdom files.  One goes to
Bordure (me for the moment) to mail to Laurel in the event it passes
kingdom and goes up to Laurel.  One goes to Arbalest (Daniel at the moment)
to work with you in the event that it is returned for whatever reason.  

Later,
Mari

============================================================================
Go to http://lists.ansteorra.org/lists.html to perform mailing list tasks.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/ms-tnef
Size: 4914 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.ansteorra.org/pipermail/heralds-ansteorra.org/attachments/20000714/5f113da1/attachment-0001.bin>