ANSTHRLD - Need conflict check (Walter)
Amy and Bill Morris
awmorris at flash.net
Tue Mar 14 07:08:44 PST 2000
But ambiguous blazons are period.
We register blazons in the SCA. We have perforce made some non-period
adjustments in the blazoning rules to eliminate the potential ambiguities.
I suggest that we forward this discussion to Laurel for a Society-wide
ruling about how to avoid this problem in the future.
----- Original Message -----
From: <tmcd at jump.net>
To: <heralds at ansteorra.org>
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2000 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: ANSTHRLD - Need conflict check (Walter)
> On Mon, 13 Mar 2000, Teceangl <tierna at agora.rdrop.com> wrote:
> > Under normal circumstances taking out half a semy is worth nothing,
> > as it's still in the 6+ charges range.
> Indeed. infinity / 2 == infinity.
> > as it is a definite arrangement change to the charges.
> I concur.
> > Were the entire device semy of hearts I would have expected to see:
> > Per bend vert semy of hearts argent and sable semy of hearts argent.
> > or
> > Per bend vert and sable, overall semy of hearts argent.
> Not "overall". CoA Glossary of Terms:
> Overall. A term applied to charges that cross over both edges of
> another charge to lie on the field on either side. For instance,
> Or, a lion rampant purpure and overall a fess sable has the fess
> starting on the field on one side, crossing over the center of the
> lion, and lying on the field on the other side.
> More likely,
> Per bend vert and sable, all semy of hearts argent.
> > I had no problem figuring out where the hearts go.
> I did, due to brain fart. Now that I think on it, there was some
> discussion on SCA Herald's (to which I contributed, actually) on this
> topic. More below.
> > Stick a comma after the vert and it should be clearer.
> > Per bend vert, and sable semy of hearts argent.
> Usually, punctuation should be irrelevant to a blazon. I think this
> is a case where it's useful. I wonder if Laurel would register
> Per bend vert plain[,] and sable semy of hearts argent.
> It's utterly unambiguous, I think, but I can only find examples of
> "plain" registered as a modifier to charges (most notably, "cotised
> plain" when it's around an ordinary with a complex shape). "Plain"
> is, however, used in *discussing* plain fields.
> In the discussion in the SCA Herald's archive file 199512c,
> (Subject:.*Fields Seme) I wrote, concerning another example,
> As you note, with or without the comma, they look like the mullety
> is only on the sable side. If the mullets are on both halves, I
> believe "all" has to be added, as in (7/93 LoAR, acceptances)
> Ariane la Fileuse. Name and device. Per chevron azure and
> argent, all mullety counterchanged.
> I also noted that if
> Per bend X and Y semy of hearts
> is interpreted as meaning that the hearts are only on the Y part, then
> we can easily express the "everwhere" meaning with
> Per bend X and Y all semy of hearts
> However, if
> Per bend X and Y semy of hearts
> were interpreted that hearts were all over X and Y, in general there
> would be no easy way to blazon "semy of hearts, but only on the
> sinister chief triangle".
> Later, I quoted
> On an unrelated topic, I just found this quote from the 4/94
> Laurel Cover Letter: "The only `rule' is that blazon should be
> precise and unambiguous and (as the legal profession will aver)
> punctuation and ambiguity go hand in hand."
> -- Stephen Friar, Bishop's Caundle
> The Heraldry Gazette, March 1994, p. 8
> Apparently, at the time I thought that "semy" would apply only to the
> last partial field division mentioned, and the list agreed.
> Apparently, my brain is subject to bit rot.
> Daniel de Lincolia, making reservations at the old heralds' home
> Tim McDaniel (home); Reply-To: tmcd at jump.net;
> if that fail, my work address is tmcd at us.ibm.com.
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