ANSTHRLD - Name help please

Kathleen O'Brien kobrien at
Fri Sep 8 13:54:25 PDT 2000

>> Congratulations, Robert.  You have done lots of great homework here!
>To be fair most of the work was done by Ld. Etiennel.  Lord Tidhg has also 
>been helping.  I'm just takng the work that they have done and seeing
where I 
>can go with it.

A lot of what is done in research involves the building of one person's
work on another.  Some of the stuff we're looking into is simply difficult
to find or difficult to understand.  So a lot of the good articles that are
out on the web are collaborative works or got reviewed by multiple people.

>> Ooooh...!  Lists of period examples!  The element that's usually missing
>> from order name submissions!  Wow!  Hey, Robert, when you get this project
>> all finished, wanna write an article about period order names?  It could be
>> as simple or as complicated as you want...
>    I had already been thinking along those lines.  I have an ILL request in 
>for the entire book, right now I just have a photocopy of a few pages from


>> If all of the period examples of orders named for people are named for
>> Saints, then the order would have to be constructed as "Order of Saint
>> <name>".  If you can find examples of orders named for people who were not
>> saints, then "The Order of Kendra Kenmare" may follow those patterns.
>The only example I see of an order that is namd afret a person without the 
>"ST." is the Order of Madelaine established in France in 1614.  I see a few 
>that I'm not sure about such as "The Order of Aubrac" and "The Order of 
>Dobrin", but those may be places and not people.

"the Order of Madelaine" is likely in reference to St. Mary Magdalene.  In
older sources, she is often referred to simply as "the Madelaine".  So I
wouldn't count that one as support. 

Don't know about Aubrac or Dobrin.  It might be worth looking up those two
names in Dauzat to see what they refer to.  These two could be "The Order
of [surname]" or "The Order of [French placename]".

>> >   Can we name our order "The Order of Our Lady of Kenmare"?  It's a very 
>>> period pattern, and my personal favorite.  
>> If you have documentation for "The Order of Our Lady of <placename>", then
>> this should be a registerable construction.
>    I find "The Order of Our Lady of Bethlehem"  no date, and "The Order of 
>Our Lady of Loreto"  1587

Great!  Though these two are of non-English places, they seem to support
the idea of "The Order of Our Lady of [place name]".

>with others such as The Order Of:
>    Our Lady of the Lily,  Our Lady of the Thistle, Our Lady of Victory, Our 
>Lady of Graces and several others.  all in priod.

Some of these are virtues.  

>I also have a few interesting ones such as:
>The Order of the Ermine and The Ear of Corn
Aesop's Fables for the middle ages?

>The Order of the Defeated Dragon
tee hee <giggle!>.   That's more abstract (and "fantasy") than any order
name I've seen submitted.  This belongs in a name version of Da'ud's class
about armory, "We laughed until we found out it was period".

>The Order of the Argonauts
>The Order of the Star of the Noble House
>The Order of the Alliance
>The Order of the Sword Bearers
>    I'm looking forward to getting the whole book.

I look forward to hearing what you can learn from this book.  Hopefully the
names of the orders haven't been too "modernized".

>> I hope this helps.  I'll see what support I can dig up for "Kenmare" as a
>> plausible period town name.  (If Magnus doesn't beat me to it.  <grin!>)

Gotta run.  Lots of software to break before it's time to go home...

Go to to perform mailing list tasks.

More information about the Heralds mailing list