ANSTHRLD - Agnarr's devices

doug bell magnus77840 at
Mon Apr 9 13:01:31 PDT 2001

Daniel, you should be able to add or fix things
with these.  I trust your experience more than mine
with arcane armory problems.

First Device:
"Gryonny azure and Or, a wolf's head erased argent."

vs William of Hoghton August of 1982 (via the West):
Sable, a grey wolf's head erased proper. [Canis lupus]
One CD for field.  Grey is considered a form of argent in
period and it is in doubt that there is second CD allowed
for tincture grey vs argent.

Talanque January of 1973:
Sable, a horned wolf's head erased argent.
One CD for field and another for adding horns.

Siegfried der Wachsame Kreuzfahrer July of 1981 (via the East):
Per pale vert and gules, a wolf's head erased close argent.
Only one CD for the field = Conflict.

Adding a bordure and turning the wolf head to sinister
will probably run into yet more conflicts.  Adding
different color bordures, orles, possible using furs on
the wolf head or making it multicolored, or such can only
be tried until something is found that is clear.  Wolves
and wolf heads have been used heavily back to 1973 in the
SCA.  Conflicts are a severe problem with simple designs
using wolves, roses, cats, and fantasy monsters such
as dragons and griffons.

Second Device:
Gryonny argent and azure, an orle of eight moline crosses counterchanged.

conflict with
Melianne d'Avignon May of 1983 (via Meridies):
Gyronny argent and azure, crusily counterchanged.
There is no CD for the field or for an orle of 8 vs a semy.
The crosses are the same color as well.
There are two precedents with cross moline that it gets a CD vs cross 
pointed but not cross pommeled (as in round knob on end).
[Cross pointed vs. cross moline] "There is a CVD for type of cross, but with 
all the good will we could muster, we could not find sufficient difference 
between these two crosses." [That is, X.2 does not apply between moline and 
pointed] (DiA I, LoAR 8/90 p.15).
[A cross doubly pommeled elongated palewise] This is being returned for 
conflict with Marke von Mainz (SCA) Gyronny argent and sable, a cross moline 
and a bordure gules., with one CD for the field, and nothing for the 
difference between the two crosses. (JoA, LoAR February 1997, p. 22)

A CD between a normal cross and a cross moline is a possiblity.  This 
becomes more doubtful when the crosses are this small.  What this is saying 
is these two devices are almost identical, both heraldically and visually.
Third Device:
Gules, a saltire argent within five doves azure.

Conflict with Neville December of 1994 (via Laurel):
Gules, a saltire argent.  Important non-SCA arms.
Only 1 CD for adding the doves.  A very common conflict.


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