[ANSTHRLD] some comments on May ILOI

[doug bell]

Here is some of the commentary this month for your discussion or giggles.  I
have suppressed all the
non English characters so some servers won't go
bonkers.  This affects the Czech and Gaelic.

Magnus von Lubeck

ILoI 05/2001.

1) Agrippina Argyra (Bjornsborg)
[Household Name] Star and Compass elements are dated to period.  Star is
also referenced as a sign name. We have an example of a compound inn name.
English Sign Names by Mari Elspeth nic Bryan
http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/inn/ gives Bear and Harrow from the time
of James I.  This name can be represented on an inn sign.

2) Alessandra de Vittori (Seawinds)
[Name] de Vittori: I believe de Vittori is registerable.  Alternate forms
would be de Vettori, Vittori, or di Vittoro.
De Felice, Cognomi italiani, page 265 s.n. Vittorio lists variants Vittori,
Vettori, Vittore, Vettore, and de Vettori.  Translating from the Italian:
"Widespread in the South in the form Vittorio and Vittorioso and in the
patronymics with De or Di (Vittorino and Vittorini are Sicilian), in the
central region Vittori, in the northeast, in Tuscany and in the central
region Vettori and Vittore or Vettore:"
The variant de Vettori gives the basic form the client wants.  Vettori is
given as a variant spelling of Vittori which leads that de Vittori is an
acceptable variant spelling.  From the text it appears de and di are
refering to the Vittorio and Vittorioso forms.
http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/showfinal.cgi?039
Quoting the relevant parts of Academy of Saint Gabriel Report 039.
"Vittori" originally meant "of or belonging to Vittorio". It would
originally have been used by Vittorio's children or by members of his
household.
The form of your name is reasonably close to some patterns of naming
recorded in Renaissance Italy. Records in Florence from 1427 record names in
a limited number of ways. Generally, names are recorded "first name di
father," sometimes followed by "di grandfather" or a surname. You could fit
this pattern with the names Dianora di Vittoro di Cellini (Dianora, daughter
of Vittoro, granddaughter of Cellini) or Dianora di Vittoro Cellini
(Dianora, daughter of Vittoro Cellini)"

3) Anezka z Rozmitala (Elfsea)
[Name] The documentation is very well done, doubly so for a Czech name.
Send it to Laurel and let Walraven look at it.
[Device] "Gules, in dexter chief a couped fret argent."
Two precedents affect these submissions and may generate some very nasty
conflicts:
1) February 1991 LoAR page 21.
"[A fret vert within a bordure gules] Conflict...with... a fret couped
[vert] within a bordure sable, with but a single CVD...for...changing [the
bordure's] tincture. [implying that couping the fret isn't sufficient for a
CVD]"
2) September 1992 LoAR pages 3-4.
"Such considerations cannot change the evidence, however; the majority of
the evidence shows fretty and a fret to be interchangeable charges, artistic
variations of one another, and we shall henceforth so treat them. (November
10, 1992 Cover Letter)"
Versus Volodar Ivanovic April of 1999 (via An Tir): "Per fess gules, fretty
argent, and sable." One for the field and I don't think you get a second vs
the frets position.
Conflict with Arwenna of Kelsley June of 1997 (via the Middle):
"Gules, fretty argent, a falcon striking maintaining in its talons a lure
sable."  for Falconmews.  Only one CD for adding the falcon as overall.
Versus Paul of Blackchurch September of 1973: "Gules, a fret between in
annulo eight mullets argent." One CD for adding the mullets.  I don't know
that you get a second CD for change of position of the fret couped given
that a fret is a throughout charge and the above rulings.

4) Anezka z Rozmitala (Elfsea)
[Badge] "(Fieldless) A fret couped argent."
Conflict with Meredudd Brangwyn April of 1997 (via Ansteorra):
"Per saltire gules and pean, a fret argent."  One CD for fieldless.
Versus Frank the Illiterate Scribe August of 1979 (via Ansteorra): "Sable, a
fret of six quill pens argent."  There is one CD for fieldless and maybe a
second CD for type.  Depending on how the pens are drawn it may be a visual
conflict.  With something that old you don't know and I believe that one is
from Heraldicon.  If you could find Frank, it obviously wouldn't do any good
to write a letter.

6) Ashlin Chrystal (Bjornsborg)
[Name] A couple of problems have come up since this name was submitted.
Conflict with Aislynn Crystyn July 1991 (via the East) who now lives in
Steppes.  Concerning the Name Aislinn, Ashling, Eislinn, and the Like by
Josh Mittleman http://www.medievalscotland.org/problem/names/aislinn.shtml
gives the name as 19th century based on research updated April 2000.  This
is part of the problem names project and it has found the name to be
returnable as modern.

9) Corwin of Saxony (Stargate)
[Name] Corwin: St. Gabriel hasn't found Corwin as a given name before the
20th century.  It is a surname and not a given name.
http://www.medievalscotland.org/problem/names/corwin.shtml
The last registration was December 1998 and the SCA compatible ruling was
1985 or so.  Personally I would like to see these 20th century names go
away, excepting the mundane name allowance.  Should we return this one for
modern usage?  Has the submitter been using it a long time?

13) Isa van Reinholte (Northkeep)
[Name] Isa: This name is not in Report #2018 but it is in Dutch Womens'
Names before 1100 by Walraven van Nijmege
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/1336/name1100vr.html.  This is close to the
desired time period.
van Reinholte: report #2018 supports this name.  "We have not found evidence
of a place called <Reinholzen>.  It is a plausible name, but probably not in
the region you want your name to fit.  <Holz> is High German word, while the
Netherlands spoke Low German dialects.  The Dutch cognate is <hout>, and the
Frisian is <holt>; we have found examples of surnames based on both these
words in communities near the North Sea.  The element <Rein-> is found in
Low German, so we would not be surprised to find a medieval place in Frisia
called <Reinholt>, <Rinholt>, or even <Reinholten>.  That might have led to
surnames like <van Reinholte>, <van Rinholten>, etc."  Bahlow, Dictionary of
German Names, page 448 s.n. Rein gives it from a field name Rain - Middle
High German rein 'berm, edge of a field'. Page 256 s.n. Holt, Low German 'a
wood, woods' and gives it as a location and place name (mostly Holte),
Henneke Anderhafholt 'on the other side of the woods' dated 1357.  Thus the
place name meaning a wood at the edge of a field.

14) Laurensa Fraser (Stargate)
[Name] Fraser: Dauzat, Noms de famille, page 267, s.n. Frazier gives it from
the ancient French fraser, a common surname of an artisan.  This documents
the name completely in French and eliminates any language mix.

16) Muirghein MacKiernan (Trelac)
[Name] The current name is a mixture of Gaelic and Anglicized Gaelic but
still registerable.
Muirghein: Concerning the Names Morgan, Morgana, Morgaine, Murghein,
Morrigan, and the Like by Heather Rose Jones
http://www.medievalscotland.org/problem/names/morgan.shtml "Muirghein - This
name appears in Old Irish as Muirgen, in Medieval Irish as Muirgein, in
Early Modern Irish as Muirghein, and after the 20th century spelling reform
it becomes Muirín."  It is a fine Gaelic name but I haven't found a period
equivalent in English that would go with MacKiernan.
MacKiernan: The correct spelling in Woulfe, page 410 is s.n. MacTighearnáin
gives M'Kiernane from the time of Elizabeth I.  A 16th century Gaelic name
would be Muirghein inghean Tighearnain but I remember that MacKiernan was
important for some reason to her.
Additional:
[Name] Tangwystyl's article gives Muirghein as the late period spelling and
we have M'Kiernane from Woulfe as late period.  The only issue here is mixed
Gaelic/English and that is a registerable wierdness.
Muirghein: From St Gabriels problem names files.
Concerning the Names Morgan, Morgana, Morgaine, Murghein, Morrigan, and the
Like by Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn
http://www.medievalscotland.org/problem/names/morgan.shtml
Muirghein (note: quoting the entire entry)
Name      Lang  M/F?     Old      Medieval  Early Mod
                         500-1000 1000-1400 1400-
Muirghein Irish masc/fem Muirgen  Muirgein  Muirghein
                        MUR-ghyen MUR-yin   MIR-i:n
"This name appears in Old Irish as Muirgen, in Medieval Irish as Muirgein,
in Early Modern Irish as Muirghein, and after the 20th century spelling
reform it becomes Muirín. [OC&M, DIL]
In medieval records, it appears in ordinary use as the name of both men and
women. (There is also at least one semi-legendary literary figure that bears
the name.) [OC&M]
The Common Celtic name from which it derives is most likely *Morigenos
(which would have been the masculine form), which means "sea-born." The
elements Mori- and -genos can be found in Gaulish names, although the
compound itself does not appear in surviving inscriptions.
This name was in ordinary use prior to 1600 by both men and women."
References:
Dictionary of the Irish Language (Based Mainly on Old and Middle Irish
Materials) - Compact Edition. Dublin: Royal Irish Academy, 1990. "DIL"
O Corrain, Donnchadh & Maguire, Fidelma. Irish Names. Dublin: The Lilliput
Press, 1990. "OC&M"

17) Sabhbh inghean Seanain (Steppes)
[Name] Sabhbh: Index of Names in Irish Annals: by Mari Elspeth nic Bryan
http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/AnnalsIndex/Feminine/Sadb.html
Sadb/Sadhbh dated from 1171, 1176, 1240, 1254, 1266, 1298, 1327, 1373, 1381,
1387, 1400, 1410, 1411, 1412, 1447, 1468, 1484, 1498.
Seanain: Annals of Tigernach, entry 1030.16 has Seanan h-ua Leochan and
dates it to 1030.  http://www.ucc.ie/celt/online/G100002/

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