[ANSTHRLD] Gaelic questions from TRF

Kathleen O'Brien kobrien at bmc.com
Tue Nov 20 14:01:42 PST 2001


>First with Caoimhe: OCM lists Caoimh{i'}n as a man's name.
>The problem is it is after the colon, which indicates it
>is a modern form not registerable in the SCA.  The ao
>looks modern and in period was spelled ae.

NOTE: The following discussion addresses authenticity only.  It
specifically does NOT address registerability.  Registerability is a
different issue and is mainly predictable via precedent.


The before the colon vs. after the colon thing in OCM isn't quite that
clear.  Unfortunately.

Before the colon are _mostly_ pre-1200 spellings.  (But not completely.
For example, the entry for the Gaelic form of Margaret lists items before
the colon but the name didn't go into use in Ireland until sometime in the
14th C as far as we can tell at this time.)

After the colon are spellings that date from post-1200 or later.  The first
spelling after the colon is _usually_ (but not always) a valid spelling for
pre-1600.  If there is more than one form after the colon, the other forms
are probably modern, but it varies by the name in question.  If it looks
like letters got removed, the spelling is likely modern.  The entry Medb is
the one I usually point to when I explain this issue.  (Note: I'm doing
this from memory since my copy of OCM is at home.)  Just after the colon is
the spelling Meadhbh.  At the end of the header is the spelling Meabh.  The
'dh' in the just-after-the-colon spelling is missing in this last spelling.
 The last one is definitely modern.

The Annals of the Four Masters, volume 4 entry M1208.8, online at
      http://www.ucc.ie/celt/online/G100005D/
lists:
      Diarmaitt Ua Caomh{a/}in

The Annals of the Four Masters were written in 1632-1636 using earlier
records as source material.  Sometimes the older spellings were preserved.
Sometimes the four masters 'modernized' the spellings to their their time
period (1632-1636).  The person described above died in 1208 according to
the annals, but the spelling used for his name could date anywhere from
1208 through 1636 - it's kinda hard to tell.  But what we do know, is that
the genitive spelling Caomh{a/}in dates to no later than 1636.

Mari



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