[ANSTHRLD] Repeal of the Modest Proposal?

[Darin Herndon]

Greetings all...

Having read Magnus' post and the response from Timothy and Daniel, I
have a couple of comments.  First off, Magnus is right; but... so are
Timothy and Daniel.

To accurately conflict check the situation described in this return,
you do have to have access to the type of information that Magnus
mentioned.  Whether done by a local herald or Electrum in the CoA, the
steps to document such presumption are accurately reflected in what
Magnus wrote.  The problem is not new in the Wreath ruling but has been
repeated in multiple cases, including an Ansteorran named Robert
Carmichael several years back.

But...
I think most of us are aware of restricted, presumptuous combinations.
Timothy quoted the rule example of Rhiannon and horses.  You could also
include what has been returned in the past; any "Thor" element in a
Norse name and the use of a Thor's hammer in arms, the name Romanov
(sp?) and a double-headed eagle, Yorkest roses and a name "of York",
Lancaster roses and the name "of Lancester", and the Scottish clan chief
conflict if the name adds a presumption (ie - Carmichael).

[I apologize for not having exact dates and quotes but I am at work and
have to write this quickly or not at all.]

The result of this IS that it adds an element of uncertainty at the
local and kingdom level as we may miss more of these presumptions if we
are not intimately familiar with the arms of Scottish clan chiefs.  But,
in my opinion, it is an acceptable risk.  It is our role when consulting
to make all reasonable efforts to conflict check.  It is also our role
to make submitters aware that we may miss things, that there are
elements we may not catch or precedents that may be created of which we
are unaware at the time of consult, and that nothing is definite until
it is approved by the CoA.

We do our best with what knowledge we have at the time we have it.
Beyond that as Wreath wrote, "Such possible cases of presumption will
have to be determined, as they have been so far in the College of Arms,
on a case by case basis."

Seigneur Etienne
Nordsteorra Herald