[ANSTHRLD] Identify this dragon?

[Kathleen O'Brien]

>Thanks for your help guys... I didn't think it would go through, but I want
>to check, and I always like to learn something new.... Where can I find the
>precedent on Norse Twisty Beasts?
>
>Jayme


I think the ruling you may be looking for is in the 05/98 LoAR
(http://www.sca.org/heraldry/loar/1998/05/lar.html).  I'll paste the entire
ruling at the end of this message.

Folks who are more familiar with the armory precedents can give you tips
for searching them.

Mari

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Thyra Thorkillsdottir. Device. Gyronny arrondy vert and Or, a Lisbjerg
gripping beast sable.

This was an appeal of a Laurel return of 12/95. In the return Laurel stated:

      "The Lisbjerg gripping-beast seems to have been registered only once,
in March 1978 to Bjorn of Havok. In the November 1986 LoAR a `borre-style
gripping beast' was returned in part because `[t]he gripping beast is not a
consistent heraldic charge which could reliably be rendered by a competent
heraldic artist'. Such appears also to be the case with the Lisbjerg
gripping beast. Indeed, no one was able to find a source for it outside the
Pictorial Dictionary, which is, it must be remembered, but a compilation of
charges which have been registered in the SCA even if only, as with this
charge, once. Given the obscurity of the charge, its difficulty of
reproduction from the blazon, and the fact that it has not been registered
since the time of the original registration some 17 years ago, we do not
feel that it remains appropriate for registration in the SCA."

The appeal says:
      "We point out that the creature considered in the 11/86 return was
not a Lisbjerg gripping beast but a borre-style gripping beast. There was
thus no explicit prohibition against the Lisbjerg gripping beast prior to
this decision. We also note the following from the 4/94 LoAR (registering
Hrólfr bláskegg Rgnvaldzson, Per pale sable and gules, a Norse Jelling
beast argent within a bordure Or.): For better or worse, the currently
defined, already-registered Norse beasts continue to be acceptable. As the
Jelling beast is one of those, we did not feel that we could reasonably
deny it here." As the Lisbjerg gripping beast is a type of Norse beast (and
was defined and already-registered), it would seem that at the time of the
client’s prior submission this Laurel precedent specifically allowed the
beast to be registerable. We note that the current
crop of Norse beasts remain registerable to this day (most recently
registered, without comment, to Malachai Halfdan Brightskull in 2/95). The
usual policy, which had been firmly rooted until a few years ago, was that
charges not previously announced as unacceptable would be allowed a final
registration. As a reminder, in 9/96 Laurel registered the final Donnelly
knots, despite the fact that none had been registered since their original
registration in 4/75. A situation very analogous to the current one. After
reviewing these facts the Middle Kingdom College agrees with the client
that, absent a specific prohibition of an otherwise acceptable charge, her
submission should have been given the typical consideration and granted a
final registration of the Lisbjerg gripping beast."

The main point behind the appeal is whether or not charges previously
announced as unacceptable would be allowed a final registration. The
submitter and the CoH of the Middle contend that they are.

Unfortunately, while it is, in our opinion, a good thing to allow a charge
a final registration, Laurel is not bound by that practice. As we stated to
the College before we became Laurel, appeals must show evidence that
Laurel's decision was wrong, not just that the person disagreed with
Laurel's decision. In this case, there is no evidence that Laurel's
decision was wrong, since the return was made within Laurel's purview.

Furthermore, even if Laurel had not been within his rights to return a
submission without previous notice, in fact previous notice had been given.
The Lisbjerg gripping beast is actually just a variety of the Borre-style
gripping beasts which were banned in 11/86, and therefore the Lisbjerg
gripping beasts were banned at the same time.

Finally, after the October 1998 Laurel meeting we will no longer register
zoomorphic beasts of any kind.