[ANSTHRLD] Use of "Thane"/"Ring Thegn"
ravenrux at cox.net
Wed Dec 31 04:56:06 PST 2003
Wow! That's a lot of stuff.
Masamune no Yahaki
From: Diane Rudin <serena1570 at yahoo.com>
Date: 2003/12/30 Tue PM 05:42:15 EST
To: "Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <heralds at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] Use of "Thane"/"Ring Thegn"
--- Tim McDaniel <tmcd at panix.com> wrote:
> Note: * HOUSE *. I recall Robin of Gilwell explaining it. As best I
> recall, there were three principality awards. Leaving Madonnas aside,
> the other two were to *households*.
*More Bureaucratic Information Than You Wanted Alert* A slight correction:
there were three *non-armigerous* principality awards, the Madonnas, the
Pillars, and the Ring-Thegns. The latter two are the household-related ones.
There were also three armigerous principality awards, the Ascending Star, the
Gilded Thorn, and the Aristotelis Discipuli. (Okay, for the persnickity, there
was also the armigerous Cavalier of the Society for Creative Anachronism, soon
changed, for obvious reasons, to the Order of the White Scarf of Ansteorra.)
> There was some doubt on whether
> one prince/ess would be able to give Ring Thegns in their tenure,
> because they were not members of a household.
*Even More Nit-Picking Than You Wanted Alert* They were not members of any
other household, but that is not the relevant point. There was doubt because
they had no household, as household was then defined, to *head*. They did have
entourage--no ruler can survive without one--but not a formal "household". The
first and third princes & princesses of Ansteorra were the heads of powerful
households. According to Robin, it is more likely that Randall & Constance
(the second prince & princess of Ansteorra) didn't give out any because they
disapproved of the thing--not a surprising attitude from two people who did not
have an elaborate household themselves.
> Households were pathologically powerful in early Ansteorran history.
> I recall Robin saying that it was because SCA territorial branches
> formed and firmed somewhat after SCA people started getting active, so
> households filled in as the organizational principle. An SCA branch
> has the virtue of its defect: it's geographical. That means you can't
> exclude someone who lives in the area. Judging by early Ansteorran
> politics, that's actually a substantial benefit.
Robin congratulates you on your retentive memory for his ramblings.
Robin & I have also found the list of Ring-Thegns, in both the last
Principality of Ansteorra OP and the May 1, 1980 OP, which he helped compile.
I will type up that list and send it to Zodiacus, with annotations as to
original name under which it was received, the recipient's current name (if
known), and the household designation.
Anyone have any other obscure questions they need answered? We have, in our
possession, every published OP of Ansteorra from the last Principality OP to
the gargantuan one published in my tenure as Zodiacus. (One of these days, in
my Copious Spare Time, I hope to go through all of them and pull in the
information missing from the current OP, mostly in the form of resigned
awards.) The Garage of Holding also includes almost every edition of Kingdom
Law, Kingdom Marshallate rules, three decades of Black Stars, commemorative
booklets from various milestone Ansteorran events, and complete constitutional
histories of every older Ansteorran award.
--Serena, with some assistance from Robin
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