[ANSTHRLD] March 2003 LoAR?

Tim McDaniel tmcd at panix.com
Mon Jun 16 10:30:58 PDT 2003

On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Snorri Hallsson <snorri at houston.rr.com> wrote:
> Any news on when the March LoAR is to be made public?  I'm looking
> for a specific item out of Caid.  (Timothy, yes, it's the outcome of
> that pended item we talked about months ago that I'm so eager to
> learn about.)

I sleep in the same bed as Laurel Clerk, so I can get you inside
information.  The only Caid item in March 2003 was in the returns

  Alys de Wilton. Device. Paly sable and argent.

      This submission was pended from the February 2003 LoAR. The pend
      was due to waiting for the ruling on whether or not the SCA
      should protect, as important non-SCA arms, the arms of the earls
      of Atholl, Paly Or and sable. These arms were protected in the
      SCA section of this LoAR. Alys' device conflicts with the earls
      of Atholl, as there is only one CD for changing half the
      tincture of the field.

Off in SCA-land was

  Atholl, Earl of. Device (important non-SCA armory). Paly Or and

      These are the territorial arms of the earls of Atholl. When
      considering the "arms" school, these arms have some prominence
      of their own. They are illustrated in this form (unquartered
      with other armory) in some standard widely available heraldic
      sources, including Woodward's A Treatise on Heraldry British and
      Foreign and Fox-Davies' The Art of Heraldry. They are also
      found, either as a quartering or alone, in some of the period
      rolls of arms that are more generally available to SCA heralds,
      including the pan-European Armorial Gelre, the English ordinary
      to period rolls Anglo-Norman Armory Two, and the Scottish Scots

      In the "man school", a number of the Stewart or Murray earls,
      marquesses, or dukes of Atholl who can be shown to have used
      this coat as one of their quarterings are mentioned in the
      (print) 11th edition Encyclopedia Brittanica with subheadings
      under Atholl. (The 11th edition Brittanica mentions all the
      earls and dukes of Atholl under Atholl rather than their
      surnames.) The on-line current Encyclopedia Brittanica also
      mentions a number of these Atholl nobility who bore this
      quartering in entries under their own surnames.

      The combination of the prominence of these arms and the
      prominence of their bearers is sufficient to register these arms
      as important non-SCA armory.

Daniel, clerk
Tim McDaniel (home); Reply-To: tmcd at panix.com; work is tmcd at us.ibm.com.

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