[ANSTHRLD] Documentation Request - Elizabeta di Firenze della Rosa

Brent Ryder borekvv at hotmail.com
Thu Apr 1 05:17:41 PST 2004

>Your documentation is damned near useless.
>Do you read LoARs?

I have read these comments and similar for some time. They say more is 
needed yet never give meaningful examples of what is required. Since I have 
said repeatedlu on this list that I know very little in the way of 
onomastics, I put what I have out for those who know better in the 
Ansteorran CoH to comment so I can make out the forms and avoid having the 
CoA send out nasty notes saying what was done was insufficient and therefor 
the submission is being returned.

It is probably personal perception, but I found your email insulting and 

>So let's go over this documentation again.

Ah something useful in the way of an example :)

> > di Firenze	From the Academy of St. Gabriel,
> > http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/arval/venice14/venice14sur.html, Page
> > 2 of 6, 'da Firenze' Locative meaning 'from Florence'
>But what do they say about it?  For all I know, they say it was
>invented by an Eritrean immigrant in 1963.
>This is an example of a complete statement (at least, I don't see
>anything significant missing):
>     Melisent is a given name dated in that spelling to 1201 under
>     Millicent in Withycombe (3rd ed), p. 220.
>Who said it, where?  That is, how can we look it up if we have
>     questions?  Withycombe (3rd ed), p. 220.  [She wrote only one
>     major work for our SCA name purposes.]
>What did they say?
>     [We want Melisent, in this case]
>     She found Melisent.
>     Dated in that spelling in a period time and place and
>         language/culture.  (Withycombe did deal with non-English
>         names, but her book was work on English given names, so I'd
>         assume "English" if they don't specify otherwise.)
>     Listed as a given name.
>Here's a reworked example, filling in the gaps.
>     di Firenze: From Arval Benicoeur and Talan Gwynek, "Fourteenth
>     Century Venetian Personal Names"
>     (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/arval/venice14/venice14sur.html).
>     'da Firenze' is listed in the "Table of Surnames" as a locative
>     meaning 'from Florence'.
>The source: the authors' names tells us much more about the
>reliability than "Saint Gabriel".  The title of the article is always
>needed, and it's extra important here because it gives us a date range
>and what language and culture it's in (when you know that Venice is in
>     da Firenze
>     Dated in that spelling in a period time and place and
>         culture/language (the article context implies that).
>     Listed as a locative surname (the function we need).
>There's one step missing: the docs say "da Firenze", the forms say "di
>Firenze".  How do you justify the change?  Perhaps that's too subtle a
>statement, so: If you can't justify it, it can't be done.
>Left off: page number.  I use a different browser and font than you;
>the page number is useless.  Anyone going to the site can do a text
>search, in any browser I've heard of.
> > della Rosa	Descriptive byname, 'of the Roses'
>This is worse.  Says who and where?  What do they say about it?

I hate to repeat myself so I'll just end


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