[ANSTHRLD] Revised Conflict Check Request

[Jay Rudin]

Daniel replied to Borek:

> > This makes the placement of the charges unforced on this field.
>
> I don't understand this point at all.
>
> - It's an Or charge (the book) with a per fess sable and Or field.  It
>   cannot be placed touching the base half of the field -- it is forced
>   towards the chief, so an arrangement CD for the book would be
>   impossible, so far as I can see.

His point, I think, is that it's not an Or charge (the book) with a per fess
sable and Or field; it's an Or charge and a gules charge with a per fess
sable and Or field.

> - A forced move is a move due to other changes to a design.
>   The demi-sun being ruled by Laurel as primary or not has no effect
>   on the position of the book, so the demi-sun is irrelevant to the
>   forced move issue.  Only the divided field affects it here.

I think that what he thinks he said is that the default position of two
primary charges is honor point and nombril point, which is true.  Consider
"Per fess or and gules, a torteau and a plate."  The torteau was not
"forced" to the top half -- it already lived there.

But you are correct that this doesn't apply here.  The demi-sun protruding
from base is a secondary charge.  (A book and a demi-sun not tied to the
base would be two primary charges, and his point would be valid.)

In any event, we've spent an awful lot of time debating a conflict that all
agree doesn't count.  Are we done yet?

Robin of Gilwell / Jay Rudin