[ANSTHRLD] Re: Heralds Digest, Vol 9, Issue 2

R C greywalker1 at yahoo.com
Tue Feb 3 14:05:09 PST 2004


 I am Tarasii Rostislavich and the Dmitrii that put in
a device (list #5) is the same as the one putting in
the name (list #6), just a double listing. I did not
have axcess to the 3rd edition of Wickenden when we
checked the names so some of the problems you listed I
did not know about.None of the people submitting are
claiming to be this Dmitrii's children either.I will
get with them and talk about these changes.



> Magnus
> Orle herald
> 
> 1) Afanasiia Ambrosiia Ivasko (Crossrode Keep)
> [Name] We can use a patronymic Ivaskova and drop
> Ambrosiia to fix the 
> problem and register Afanasiia Ivaskova.  This is a
> large change though but 
> likely the one Laurel would make.  As submitted,
> there is one weirdness for 
> two Christian given names in Russian.  There is no
> documentation Ambrosiia 
> is a period feminine construction, which is cause
> for return.  This uses 
> three given names in Russian which is a return.
> Afanasiia: Russian female given name - Wickenden 3rd
> ed. under Afanasiia 
> page 1 has the feminine of Afanasii. The date of 311
> indicates the person 
> was a saint.  It derives from saint Athanasia.  This
> makes it a Christian 
> not a native Russian name.
> Ambrosiia: Russian female given name - Wickenden 3rd
> ed. under Ambrosii. 
> page 6.  Only the masculine form of the name is
> documented.  This is a 
> Christian name derived from saint Ambrose.  NO
> feminine form of this name is 
> listed in Wickenden.  On page xxi Wickenden points
> out that Christian names 
> are even more gender specific than the native names.
>  Women were given the 
> names of female saints. Saint Ambrose was a man. 
> When a female form of the 
> name exists an example is given.  The lack of any
> examples indicates this 
> name cannot be made into a feminine form.
> Ivasko: Russian male given name - Wickenden 3rd ed.
> page 120 under Ivan 
> diminutives Ivasko Skorpan, peasant 1565. This is a
> man's given name not a 
> patronymic.
> Related precedents: "Having two given Christian
> names in a Russian name was 
> ruled a weirdness in the June 1997 LoAR. As both
> Aleksandra and Ekaterina 
> are Christian names, this submission has one
> weirdness and is registerable." 

> 2) Anastasiia Ivanova Petrashalova (Crossrode Keep)
> [Name] This is Anastasiia, daughter of Ivan
> Petreshalov.
> Anastasiia: Russian female given name - Wickenden
> 3rd ed. under Anastasiia 
> page 7 meaning arisen, resurrected."  Feminine of
> Anastasii.  Anastasiia 
> from 1547. This is a Christian given name from a 4th
> century saint.
> Ivanova: Russian female patronymic - Wickenden 3rd
> ed. under Ioann page 120 
> Natal'ia Ivanova zhena Korina 1498 as a female
> patronymic.
> Petrashalova: Russian female patronymic - Wickenden
> 3rd ed. under Petreshal 
> page 266 gives Gridia Molva Petreshalov serf 1491. 
> An a is added to the end 
> to make the genders agree and the spelling should be
> changed to 
> Petreshalova.
> 
> 5) Dmitrii Rostislavich (Crossrode Keep)
> [Name] They need letters of permission to conflict
> for each of the relatives 
> in this letter.  Otherwise one gets registered and
> the others returned.  
> Rfs.VI.3. "Names Claiming Specific Relationships. -
> Names that unmistakably 
> imply identity with or close relationship to a
> protected person or literary 
> character will generally not be registered."
> Dmitrii: Russian male given name - Wickenden 3rd ed.
> page 68 under Dmitrii 
> Prince Dmitrii 1262.
> Rostislavich: Russian male patronymic - son of
> Rostislav Wickenden 3rd ed. 
> page 299 under Rostislav gives Riurik Rostislavich
> from 1198.
> 
> 6) Dmitrii syn Dmitrii Rostislavich (Crossrode Keep)
> [Name] This is Dmitrii son of Dmitrii Rostislavich. 
> They have to enclose a 
> letter of permission to conflict.  Otherwise one
> gets registered and the 
> other returned.  Rfs.VI.3. "Names Claiming Specific
> Relationships. - Names 
> that unmistakably imply identity with or close
> relationship to a protected 
> person or literary character will generally not be
> registered."
> Dmitrii: Russian male given name - Wickenden 3rd ed.
> page 68 under Dmitrii 
> Prince Dmitrii 1262.
> Syn: syn is son of Wickenden page xxii.
> Dmitrii: Russian male patronymic.  This should be
> Dmitr'ev according to the 
> rules of forming patronymics.  Wickenden 3rd ed.
> page 68 under Dmitrii gives 
> Ivan Dmitr'ev syn Velitskii 1594.
> Rostislavich: Russian male patronymic - son of
> Rostislav Wickenden 3rd ed. 
> page 299 under Rostislav gives Riurik Rostislavich
> from 1198.
> Dmitrii syn Dmitr'ev Rostislavich would be the final
> form.
> 
> 
> 24) Svatava Ivanova Petreshalova (Crossrode Keep)
> [Name] This Svatava, daughter of Ivan Petreshalov.
> Svatava: Russian female given name. Wickenden 3rd
> ed. page 355 under 
> Sviatava gives Svatava from 1030.
> Ivanova: Russian female patronymic - Wickenden 3rd
> ed. under Ioann page 120 
> Natal'ia Ivanova zhena Korina 1498 as a female
> patronymic.
> Petrashalova: Russian female patronymic - Wickenden
> 3rd ed. under Petreshal 
> page 266 gives Gridia Molva Petreshalov serf 1491. 
> An a is added to the end 
> to make the genders agree and the spelling should be
> changed to 
> Petreshalova.
> 
> 25) Tarasii syn Dmitrii Rostislavich (Crossrode
> Keep)
> [Name] This is Tarasii son of Dmitrii Rostislavich. 
> They have to enclose a 
> letter of permission to conflict.  Otherwise one
> gets registered and the 
> other returned.  Rfs.VI.3. "Names Claiming Specific
> Relationships. - Names 
> that unmistakably imply identity with or close
> relationship to a protected 
> person or literary character will generally not be
> registered."
> Tarasii: Russian masculine given name - Wickenden
> 3rd ed. page 359 under 
> Tarasii gives Tarasii Timofeev syn Karamzin 1566.
> syn: patronymic son of Wickenden 3rd ed. page xxii. 
> It is lower case also.
> Dmitrii: Russian male patronymic.  This should be
> Dmitr'ev according to the 
> rules of forming patronymics.  Wickenden 3rd ed.
> page 68 under Dmitrii gives 
> Ivan Dmitr'ev syn Velitskii 1594.
> Rostislavich: Russian male patronymic - son of
> Rostislav Wickenden 3rd ed. 
> page 299 under Rostislav gives Riurik Rostislavich
> from 1198.
> Tarasii syn Dmitr'ev Rostislavich would be the final
> form.
> 
> 26) Upyr’ syn Dmitrii Rostislavich (Crossrode Keep)
> [Name] This is Upyr’ son of Dmitrii Rostislavich. 
> They have to enclose a 
> letter of permission to conflict.  Otherwise one
> gets registered and the 
> other returned.  Rfs.VI.3. "Names Claiming Specific
> Relationships. - Names 
> that unmistakably imply identity with or close
> relationship to a protected 
> person or literary character will generally not be
> registered."
> Upyr’: Russian masculine given name.  Wickenden 3rd
> ed. page 381 under Upir' 
> gives it as a variant spelling Upyr'. priest 1047.
> syn: patronymic son of Wickenden 3rd ed. page xxii. 
> It is lower case also.
> Dmitrii: Russian male patronymic.  This should be
> Dmitr'ev according to the 
> rules of forming patronymics.  Wickenden 3rd ed.
> page 68 under Dmitrii gives 
> Ivan Dmitr'ev syn Velitskii 1594.
> Rostislavich: Russian male patronymic - son of
> Rostislav Wickenden 3rd ed. 
> page 299 under Rostislav gives Riurik Rostislavich
> from 1198.
> Upyr’ syn Dmitr'ev Rostislavich would be the final
> form.
> 
> 27) Vladimir syn Dmitrii Rostislavich (Crossrode
> Keep)
> [Name] This is Vladimir son of Dmitrii Rostislavich.
>  They have to enclose a 
> letter of permission to conflict. Otherwise one gets
> registered and the 
> other returned.  Rfs.VI.3. "Names Claiming Specific
> Relationships. - Names 
> that unmistakably imply identity with or close
> relationship to a protected 
> person or literary character will generally not be
> registered."
> Vladimir: Russian masculine given name - Wickenden
> 3rd ed. page 396 under 
> Vladimir has Vladimir Vsevolodovich 1053.
> syn: patronymic son of Wickenden 3rd ed. page xxii. 
> It is lower case also.
> Dmitrii: Russian male patronymic.  This should be
> Dmitr'ev according to the 
> rules of forming patronymics.  Wickenden 3rd ed.
> page 68 under Dmitrii gives 
> Ivan Dmitr'ev syn Velitskii 1594.
> Rostislavich: Russian male patronymic - son of
> Rostislav Wickenden 3rd ed. 
> page 299 under Rostislav gives Riurik Rostislavich
> from 1198.
> Vladimir syn Dmitr'ev Rostislavich would be the
> final form.


=====
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