[ANSTHRLD] Heraldic Regalia

[Diane Rudin]

Mistress Serena Lascelles unto all members of the Ansteorran Heralds' list
sendeth greetings.

Oh, my, how full the inbox gets if one doesn't check for a few days.

It seems to me that we had this discussion on this list several months ago.
(Checks archives).  Ah, I find that we discussed *cloaks & tabards* in April
2003, but not chains.  That was in an off-list chat with someone.  Well,
here is a summation of scattered facts:

Fox-Davies is a Victorian source.  So is Parker.  Victorian sources are more
noted for their enthusiasm than their accuracy.  The definition from Parker
that Ivo linked to does not cite dates or sources in association with the
assertion that kings of arms & heralds wore chains of office.

Are there portraits of Kings of Arms wearing the Greater George?  Certainly.
Are there any portraits of Kings of Arms *who are not members of the Order
of the Garter* wearing the Greater George?  Not that I've found.

(NB:  the Greater George is the term commonly used to differentiate the full
formal collar of the Order of the Garter, worn only for very formal
ceremonies, from the Lesser George, which is just the pendant from the
formal collar worn on a ribbon or simple chain, and is for everyday wear.)

Ditto the collar of the Order of the Golden Fleece.

To put this in an SCA context, Etienne may wear the arms of Ansteorra while
acting in his formal capacity as Star Principal Herald, but I'd throttle him
if he, tomorrow, started wearing a white belt, unadorned heavy gold chain,
medallion of the Order of the Laurel, and a chapeau, while acting in his
formal capacity as Star Principal Herald.  Francois may wear the arms of the
Society while acting in his formal capacity as Laurel King of Arms, AND he
may wear a chapeau, and a medallion of the Order of the *Pelican*, because
he is a member of the order of the Pelican, but that does not entitle him to
wear the insignia of the Orders of Chivalry or the Order of the Laurel.

Ivo wrote:

> For a Shire (not under a Barony) the chain would consist
> of plaques bearing the shire device/arms alternating with plaques
> bearing either the kingdom device/arms or perhaps just the star of
> Ansteorra.

*The only persons entitled to display the arms of the kingdom of Ansteorra
are the Crown, the Star Principal Herald acting in his capacity as the voice
of the Crown, and the Royal Herald while crying court for their Majesties.*

As to the basic suggestion, I still want to see evidence that heraldic
officers in period wore chains of office in their capacity as heralds.

I could possibly accept a chain/collar of office that was made of *badges*
of the branch, but not arms.  No collar of knighthood or of office that I
can recall incorporates arms.

When looking at paintings, it is always necessary to ask the question, "but
are these connected outside of this individual?"  For instance, there is a
painting, c. 1580, of the wife of an English earl, whose dress has a nifty
lozenge pattern embroidered all over it, formed of ragged staves.  If I were
to copy that dress, I (in my persona) would be being presumptuous, because
in that case, the ragged staff is the badge of the earldom into which that
woman married.  Therefore, while she is entitled to wear it, and her
husband, and their family, etc., I'm not, because I'm not of that house.

--Serena Lascelles, Magistra Laureae
Blanc Gryffon Herald
Stellar Scroll Herald