[ANSTHRLD] More comments on November ILOI

[Doug Bell]

Commentary isn't finished and it's already grown to 4 pages.

I figured remarks on this letter need to be reviewed by the entire 
list before becoming part of the official ICC.  This letter has found
a lot of complex issues to run into.

Magnus

1) Alarich Iarngard von Thorn. (Mooneschadowe) 
[Badge] Conflict with Catalina Ximena Villanova de Santa Maria January 1998:
"Sable, a winged lion statant guardant haloed Or." There is one CD for
Fieldless but nothing for passant versus statant.  The halo is too small to
give a major visible difference.

2) Angelique de la Fontaine. (Northkeep) 
[Name] Angelique - Jewish Given Names Found in Les Noms Des Israélites en
France by Aryanhwy merch Catmael
www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/levy/angelique.html under Angelique 13th
century Angélique à Mâcon et Ailleurs. 
de la Fontaine - An Index to the Given Names in the 1292 Census of Paris by
Colm Dubh www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/paris.html
Gerbaut de la fontainne 

3) Brenna MacEwan. (Wiesenfeuer) 
[Name] Brenna - Actually it wasn't ruled SCA compatible but that it was
probably Italian, which gives one weirdness for a Italian/Scots mix. 
[January 2002 LoAR Atenveldt-R] "Brenna MacGhie of Kintyre. Should a name
change be submitted, the form Brenna MacGhie of Kintyre, is registerable.
Mixing Italian and Scots in a name was ruled on in August 1999: While there
is little evidence for mixed Scots/Italian names, there is enough contact
between the cultures for this to be allowable. It is, however, a weirdness."
MacEwan - Black page 491 s.n. MacEwan gives Duncan M'Ewin V'Neil V'Arn from
1597.  Page 245 s.n. Eoghann "in the north or northeast it is correctly
Englished Evan or Ewan".  Page 249 s.n. Ewan has Ewen as a witness during
the reign of Alexander II (1214-1249).  Withycombe page 114 s.n. Ewen has
Ewan in regular use since the end of the 15th century.

5) Dieric Bräuer. (Bryn Gwlad) 
[Name] Dieric - Derich is in Bahlow (Gentry translation) page 81 s.n.
Derichs has Bernd Derichson 1609.  It is a Low German form of the ever
popular Dietrich.
[Device] The Pictorial Dictionary lists the tricune as unique to SCA
heraldry.  It is very similar to a caltrop and the banned 3 pointed mullet.
It has been registered 4 times.
The precedents list: 
"A tricune (Lat.: "triple wedge") is a geometric figure formed of three
passion-nails cojoined in estoile at the heads. (HB, 5 Feb 72 [50], p. 1)
[The term appears to be a neologism.]"
"Tricune is an old Germano-Norse design that may also be described as three
passion-nails cojoined in estoile at the heads. (IoL, 14 Jan 73 [58], p. 16)"
"A number of commenters questioned the acceptability of a mullet of three
points, noting that it is in outline much nearer to a caltrap with a 'leg'
missing than it is to any kind of mullet. That it has only been registered
once before lends weight to this argument. It is Laurel's opinion that the
mullet of three points should be added to those charges no longer registered
by the College." (LoAR 3/92 p.15).     
     My searches indicate it isn't a period heraldic charge or even a period
term for an item.  It can be confused with a caltrop and a three pointed
mullet, which we don't register for that reason.  So why are we still
registering this charge?
  
8) Engenulf de Vienville. (Gates Edge) 
[Name] The 500 year difference in these names may be considered a weirdness
but it should be registerable.  The gap could be narrowed but it would take
extensive research to do it.

9) Eric von Stryker. (Middleford)
[Name] Eric - Bahlow page s.n. Erich dates Erich to 1293, 1320, and
15th-16th centuries.  Brechenmacher page 413 s.n. Erich cites 1456 Joh.
Erik, 1612 Melchior Erich or Ericus.  Eric should be a reasonable spelling
variation of these which we register.

10) Etromma ingen Domnaill. (Northkeep)
[Name] OC&M, Irish Names, page 90 s.n. Étromma says this occurs rarely as a
girl's name in early period.  The first letter E has an accent.

11) Hannah Marie Lamb (Middleford)
[Name] Hannah - Withycombe, page 145 s.n. Hannah has "Hannah came into use
at the Reformation."
Marie - Reaney & Wilson page 301 s.n Maryson has Willelmus filius Marie from
1292.
Lamb - Reaney & Wilson, page 269 s.n. Lamb has Wulmar Lamb from 1195.
[Device] This may conflict with Eldrid Tremayne February 1997: "Per pale
azure and gules, a goat clymant Or." One CD for the field difference but
nothing for a goat versus sheep.
This becomes more complicated because a ram and a goat appear to be treated
as different charges in period.
"Celeste Dougherty. Device. Per bend sinister vert and azure, a goat rampant
argent, maintaining in its forehooves a lyre Or.  This conflicts with Etaoin
of Lough Gara (SCA) Lozengy Or and azure, a sheep salient maintaining a drop
spindle, threaded of its own wool, argent., with but one CD for the field.
Please instruct the submitter if she resubmits with a lyre to draw a more
standard one, or present documentation that the one she used here is a
period lyre." (August 1997 LoAR)

12) Hrafn Óláfsson. (Steppes)
[Name] Geirr Bassi Haraldsson, The Old Norse Name, page 11 Hrafn. 
Geirr Bassi Haraldsson, The Old Norse Name, page 13 Óláfr
The patronymic is constructed correctly.  This is all that needs to be cited
for Old Norse. No further summary or photocopies are needed.
[Device] "Per pale sable and argent, two ravens respectant counterchanged."
Aoife ní Fhaoileáin June of 1991: "Per pale sable and argent, two owls
counterchanged."  One CD for the change of facing of one owl and one CD for
type raven versus owl.
Adelith of Horton-cum-Studley January of 1991: "Per pale sable and argent,
two swans naiant respectant, wings elevated, counterchanged."
There is now a substantial difference between swans and ravens so this is clear.

14) Kyneth M'Kyvyr M'Fergus. (Loch Ruadh)
[Name] Ivor MacFergus was registered September 1999 (via Ansteorra).
Permission to presume is needed.
Mari found these examples in Black for this type of name:
Alexander Makrore Mc Kilferson (1506, page 562, s.n. MacRory)
Innes McAllane McRonald (1541, page 561, s.n. MacRanald)
Maria M’Kane M’Fale (1548, page 556, s.n. MacPhail)
[Device] The bull is drawn in trian aspect.

15) Odawara Tarou Yoshinobu. (Greywood)
[Name] Solveig Name Construction in Medieval Japan 2nd ed. page 29 
Odawara, which is an undated placename found on page 295, located west of
Tokyo. If <Odawara> is not registerable, submitter will accept family name
<Oda> dated to 1392 on page 322 under Historical Surnames. 
Kanagawa Tourist Guide
www.kanagawa-kankou.or.jp/english/spot/odawara/od_01-11.html
"Odawara Castle is the symbol of Odawara City. Originally built in 1417 and
rebuilt in 1960, the castle contains a museum with related historical objects." 
Tarou dated to 1600, meaning first son, found on page 371 under  Historical
Masculine Yobina. 
Yoshinobu dated to 1392 on page 366 under Historical Masculine Nanori. 
[Device] The well frame is quite a bit larger than the dragonfly and looks
like the primary charge.

16) Peter MacIntyre. (Mooneschadowe)
[Name] Peter - Reaney & Wilson page 347 s.n. Peter has Ralph Peter 1195.
Black, Surnames of Scotland page 658 s.n. Peterson has Nigellus filius Petri
1317 and s.n. Peter has John Peter 1636.
MacIntyre - Black, Surnames of Scotland, page 519 s.n. MacIntyre has 
Makintare 1506, Johnne Mcintier 1592, and McYntyre 1540.  The name has
almost endless spelling variations.
[Device] "Azure, on a pile argent a cross potent fitchy azure."
Conflict with Deotrich Hiltipard October of 1984 (via Calontir):
"Azure, on a pile throughout between two panthers incensed combattant
argent, a Latin cross azure."
There is one CD for removing the secondary group of panthers.

18) Rose of Nazareth. (Steppes)
[Device] Blazon as: "Argent, a horse's head couped contourny sable, crined
gules, a chief embattled sable."

19) Seamus Mac Duff. (Elfsea) 
[Device] Blazon as: "Gules, a sword fesswise grasped at the hilt by a
sinister gauntlet and in base two doves displayed argent."

20) Wilhelm der Wulf von dem Schwartzwald. (Northkeep) 
[Household Name] House Goldwulf - The registered name is Wilhelm der Wulf
von dem Schwarzwald.
The designator Haus would be better but he doesn't allow a language change.
First the elements:
Gold- Bahlow (Gentry translation) page 179 s.n. Gold has a house name Werner
zem Golde 14th century.
wulf - Bahlow page 624 s.n. Wulf is a Low German form of wolf - Bernd de
Wulf 1404; page 620 s.n. Wolf as a house name Heinrich zem Wolve from 13th
century, also Weißenwolf and zum grauen Wolf have no dates (white wolf and
gray wolf).
Second the construction:
Under Rfs.III.2.b.iv. Household Names we are using an inn sign name.  The
examples given are English sign names.  Color + item names are also found in
German.
Bahlow page 469 s.n. Rotschuh has Rotschuch 1493 (red shoe) page 469 s.n
Rothut has Rothut 1577 (red hat) page 192 s.n. Grüneis has Grünnagel 1565
(green nail) page 525 s.n. Silber has Silverbuk 1262 (silver belt). 
Weißenwolf and zum grauen Wolf (white wolf and at the gray wolf) mentioned
above appear to be period but have no explicit dates.
[Badge] Blazon as: "Sable, in bend a wolf rampant contourny and a tankard Or."

21. William Killian (Stonebridge Keep)
[Device] Blazon as: "Azure, in canton a mullet of four points within a
bordure argent, mullety of four points azure."  
The mullets on the bordure are so small they look like lozenges and are not
identifiable.
The original return was January 2001 LoAR "William Killian. Device. Azure,
in canton a mullet of four points, a bordure argent. Conflict with Ariel of
Alon, Azure, two compass stars argent and a sword argent, hilted gules,
winged Or, a bordure argent. As neither a compass star nor a mullet of four
points are period charges, and they differ only by the addition of the
lesser points, there is not a CD between a mullet of four points and a
compass star. There is also not a CD for arrangement on the field, because
William's mullet occupies the same space as one of Ariel's compass stars.
Therefore there is only a single CD for changing the number of primary charges."