[ANSTHRLD] Re: Optio

kobrien@texas.net kobrien at texas.net
Tue Sep 7 12:25:22 PDT 2004

> >But from my limited knowledge, I wonder whether "Award of the Optio"
> >would be shot down immediately on the grounds of Optio being a job
> >title or rank, not an order or award.  It might have to be "Optio of
> >the Sable Star" (shudder) or something.
> Or you could make it a job title: something like "Optionis Ansteorrum" might 
> work. (Sorry if that's not the proper construction - my written Latin is a 
> little rusty, though I can still read it readily enough.) There would have 
> to be some research done, assuredly, but there are quite a few people in on 
> this now, so it shouldn't be so hard for someone to come up with something. 
> I'm certainly intrigued enough to want to do some research in this vein. 
> I'll let anyone know if I find something interesting.
> Galiana

Some basic structures from http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/order/ 


Construction patterns comprising up to 5% of the data set.

Group - Miolans, Fools, Seraphim 
Group + Place - Hospitallers for Germany, Nobles of Tyrol, Maestranza of Ronda 


These construction patterns have less than 5 examples for each pattern.
Adjective + Group - Christian Militia, Teutonic Knights, Angelical Knights 
Adjective + Group + Name - Poor Soldiers of Christ 
Adjective + Group + Name + Place - Teutonic Order of the Saint Mary of 
Adjective + Quality + Group - Ancient Nobility of the Four Emperors 
Colour + Group - Aurate Knights, Golden Militia, Golden Knights 
Group + Colour - Militia Aurate 
Group + Group - Friars Preachers 
Group + Name - Militia of Christ, Argonauts of St. Nicholas 
Group + Name + Place - Hospitallers of St. John of Jerusalem, Gaudenti of Our 
Lady of Bologna 
Group + Quality - Brothers of Jubilation 
Name + Group - Pian Knights 
Place + Group - Brician Knights, Lauretan Knights 
Thing + Group - Sword Bearers, Flag of the Danes 

This is a summary; the list by construction pattern is available at 

For an example of a Latin order name registration, you can see the 
registration for <Legio Ursi> from Meridies at:


The name means 'Legion of the Bear' (<Ursi> is the genitive form of 
<Ursus> 'bear').

A name more similar to the <Optio> name being discussed here can be found under

     Citadel of the Southern Pass, Barony of the. Order name Order 
     of Arquites Australes.

in the Jan 2004 LoAR at 

Relevant bits include:
     Submitted as Order of Arquites Australis, based on the 
     documentation, this order name basically means 'Order of 
     Southern Bowmen'. 

     In this case, the grammar of the order name is not quite correct. 
     Metron Ariston explains:

          A quick look at the big Lewis and Short confirms my initial 
          impression that arquites does appear in a classical gloss for
          sagittarii but also confirms my recollection that this form is 
          plura[l]. That being the case, I would expect the plural form 
          of the adjective: australes. That would make the nominative 
          form arquites australes. However, if they really want a Latin 
          form, it should be Ordo followed by the genitive: 
          Ordo Arquitum Australium.

     Based on Metron Ariston's information, we have changed the adjective 
     in this order name from the singular Australis to the plural Australes 
     in order to match the plural Arquites referring to bowmen (rather 
     than a single bowman).

     While Arquites 'bowmen' does not fall into the same category 
     of 'star', 'flower', and 'light' used in the barony's 
     previously registered order names, a word meaning 'bowmen' 
     is reasonable based on examples of period order names 
     referring to plural groups of people such as Militia, Knights, 
     Preachers, etc., listed in Meradudd Cethin's article "Project 
     Ordensnamen OR What do you mean that the Anceint[sic] and 
     Venerable Order of the Most Holy and Righteous Wombat's Toenail      
     isn't period?" (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/order/). 

I looked back through the messages in this thread and can't find any 
indication of what the actual desired form of this order name is.  Should the 
form of <Optio> actually used be singular or plural?  Should the whole order 
name be in Latin?  (Something like <Ordo Optionum> or whatever the correct 
genitve is for <Optio>.)  Does anyone know the answers to these questions?


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