[ANSTHRLD] Re: Optio
kobrien at texas.net
Tue Sep 7 12:25:22 PDT 2004
> >But from my limited knowledge, I wonder whether "Award of the Optio"
> >would be shot down immediately on the grounds of Optio being a job
> >title or rank, not an order or award. It might have to be "Optio of
> >the Sable Star" (shudder) or something.
> Or you could make it a job title: something like "Optionis Ansteorrum" might
> work. (Sorry if that's not the proper construction - my written Latin is a
> little rusty, though I can still read it readily enough.) There would have
> to be some research done, assuredly, but there are quite a few people in on
> this now, so it shouldn't be so hard for someone to come up with something.
> I'm certainly intrigued enough to want to do some research in this vein.
> I'll let anyone know if I find something interesting.
Some basic structures from http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/order/
FREQUENTLY USED PATTERNS
Construction patterns comprising up to 5% of the data set.
Group - Miolans, Fools, Seraphim
Group + Place - Hospitallers for Germany, Nobles of Tyrol, Maestranza of Ronda
INFREQUENTLY USED PATTERNS
These construction patterns have less than 5 examples for each pattern.
Adjective + Group - Christian Militia, Teutonic Knights, Angelical Knights
Adjective + Group + Name - Poor Soldiers of Christ
Adjective + Group + Name + Place - Teutonic Order of the Saint Mary of
Adjective + Quality + Group - Ancient Nobility of the Four Emperors
Colour + Group - Aurate Knights, Golden Militia, Golden Knights
Group + Colour - Militia Aurate
Group + Group - Friars Preachers
Group + Name - Militia of Christ, Argonauts of St. Nicholas
Group + Name + Place - Hospitallers of St. John of Jerusalem, Gaudenti of Our
Lady of Bologna
Group + Quality - Brothers of Jubilation
Name + Group - Pian Knights
Place + Group - Brician Knights, Lauretan Knights
Thing + Group - Sword Bearers, Flag of the Danes
This is a summary; the list by construction pattern is available at
For an example of a Latin order name registration, you can see the
registration for <Legio Ursi> from Meridies at:
The name means 'Legion of the Bear' (<Ursi> is the genitive form of
A name more similar to the <Optio> name being discussed here can be found under
Citadel of the Southern Pass, Barony of the. Order name Order
of Arquites Australes.
in the Jan 2004 LoAR at
Relevant bits include:
Submitted as Order of Arquites Australis, based on the
documentation, this order name basically means 'Order of
In this case, the grammar of the order name is not quite correct.
Metron Ariston explains:
A quick look at the big Lewis and Short confirms my initial
impression that arquites does appear in a classical gloss for
sagittarii but also confirms my recollection that this form is
plura[l]. That being the case, I would expect the plural form
of the adjective: australes. That would make the nominative
form arquites australes. However, if they really want a Latin
form, it should be Ordo followed by the genitive:
Ordo Arquitum Australium.
Based on Metron Ariston's information, we have changed the adjective
in this order name from the singular Australis to the plural Australes
in order to match the plural Arquites referring to bowmen (rather
than a single bowman).
While Arquites 'bowmen' does not fall into the same category
of 'star', 'flower', and 'light' used in the barony's
previously registered order names, a word meaning 'bowmen'
is reasonable based on examples of period order names
referring to plural groups of people such as Militia, Knights,
Preachers, etc., listed in Meradudd Cethin's article "Project
Ordensnamen OR What do you mean that the Anceint[sic] and
Venerable Order of the Most Holy and Righteous Wombat's Toenail
isn't period?" (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/order/).
I looked back through the messages in this thread and can't find any
indication of what the actual desired form of this order name is. Should the
form of <Optio> actually used be singular or plural? Should the whole order
name be in Latin? (Something like <Ordo Optionum> or whatever the correct
genitve is for <Optio>.) Does anyone know the answers to these questions?
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