[ANSTHRLD] Heraldic Faux Pas

Mon Aug 8 21:50:42 PDT 2005

While I did find the faux pas comment originally confusing, I took no
offence realizing that I had stumbled into an old discussion.  Then I was
directed to meet a man at Lughnasad who, it was told to me, was the best
Field Herald there is in the entire Kingdom.  You see, I will be Site Herald
for the Shire of Rosenfeld event "Three Kings" in this, my first year as
Herald for Rosenfeld.  The event will held November 11 to 13 (the second
weekend) and will be based this year on three Scots so is subtitled "Clash
of the Tartans".  (Waits for the reaction to settle)  As such I have placed
myself on a fast track to learn what I can about presentation Heraldry and
that included being properly attired.

Upon introducing myself to him (name now forgotten but it may have bee
Dankyn himself) he recognized me from this faux pas post so we never really
talked about field heraldry.  He told me of a book he once published on this
very topic and the research and his kindness in supplying many copies to be
sold to people like myself who are just learning (and in my opinion should
learn it right before having the opportunity to learn it wrong).  And he
sadly told me what probably happened to those pamphlets.  My original post
was because I too had found that historically speaking the Herald only wore
the colors and device of the person he was herald for. I wished to find if
my own supposition from my research was true and supported in the College of
Heralds.  I found that it is and is, respectively.  Even so, I believe if we
hold strictly to period practices then in our Kingdom alone we would have to
sew thousands of tabards including at least two new ones every six months.
So I can see why we do a group's device instead.

I was told yesterday that the tabard is for a shire, not a Barony (implying
that only Baronies, Principalities, or Kingdoms would have a tabard with its
device only on it) and also that the Herald doing his or her job IS working
for the College so the out of period crossed trumpets on a green field can
(and now will) be on the tabard that someone else will make for me [NOTE TO
SELF: Does this mean a Herald should not work for a shire since it is not
important enough to dream of being better?].  The suggestion of having the
Heralds badge on the sleeves was turned around so that now the Shires device
will most likely be there (relegating it to a secondary position behind the
College of Heralds) and most likely the tabard will be quartered.  I chose
to cease and desist, and accept this offer of assistance and offered in turn
the fabrics I had collected up to this point for making the Rosenfeld
Heralds Tabard.  I know the woman who will be sewing the tabard is wonderful
as both a seamstress and an A&S champion so the tabard should be wonderful
to look at as well.

I see this entire incident as an indicator that we heralds are as splintered
in our approach to heraldry as any peewee little league "team".  One way to
remedy this is to have the people who are only doing it for fun, or for the
rush of authority, or who are just blissfully ignorant Herald at all archery
and throwing contests and to wear a special heralds badge over their heart
Gules, an Annulet Argent, around an Annulet Gules, around a Roundel Argent,
Two Trumpets in Saltire, Or.  No, that won't work because a metal cannot go
on a metal.  Maybe we can leave off the Trumpets in Saltire?  My apologies
for the bad blazon.  Suggestions gladly accepted to correct this lack in my
knowledge.

Well, I am sure I will learn much at the Heraldic and Scribal Symposium if I
am still herald after this posts.  I look forward to meeting all of you
(sorry, You'all) there.

? Charles Ó Floinn, ?
tons at raf662bravo.com
Herald, Shire of Rosenfeld
Kilgore, Texas

-----Original Message-----
From: heralds-bounces+tons=raf662bravo.com at ansteorra.org
[mailto:heralds-bounces+tons=raf662bravo.com at ansteorra.org]On Behalf Of
Rhonda and Stephen Hays
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 9:47 PM
To: Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA,Inc.
Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] Heraldic Faux Pas

Charles,

It was nice to meet you at the meeting.  I hope that you didn't take offense
at my comment.  I have been sort of compiling a list of the most common faux
pas that I have made along with a few others out there, new and old alike.

There have been some rather interesting designs for heraldic tabards and
while each of them really looked good from a modern eye, it didn't quite
capture the medieval spirit of our game.

What I find is that alot of our newcomers are looking around at what our
oldtimers are doing and assuming that if they do it, it is okay.  That is
not always in the best heraldic taste.

What was done in period and what we do in the SCA differs on certain points
and the more I learn about period heraldic practices, the more I realize why
we simplify some of what was done in period.  Talk about confusing!

I will see you at Three Kings for sure.

medb

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Ó Floinn" <Tons at raf662bravo.com>
To: "Rhonda and Stephen Hays" <housedragonstar at earthlink.net>; "Heralds
List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <heralds at ansteorra.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 8:14 PM
Subject: RE: [ANSTHRLD] Heraldic Faux Pas

>I am no longer making the heraldic tabard for my shire.
>
> ? Charles Ó Floinn, ?
> tons at raf662bravo.com
> Herald, Shire of Rosenfeld
> Kilgore, Texas
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: heralds-bounces+tons=raf662bravo.com at ansteorra.org
> [mailto:heralds-bounces+tons=raf662bravo.com at ansteorra.org]On Behalf Of
> Rhonda and Stephen Hays
> Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 8:08 PM
> To: Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA,Inc.
> Subject: [ANSTHRLD] Heraldic Faux Pas
>
> Well, there's another one for the top ten heraldic faux pas list...
>
> medb
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim McDaniel" <tmcd at panix.com>
> To: "Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc."
> <heralds at ansteorra.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 1:39 PM
> Subject: RE: [ANSTHRLD] Lost Submissions
>
>
> On Wed, 3 Aug 2005, Charles Ó Floinn <Tons at raf662bravo.com> wrote:
>> Now on to another question.  I am making a Heralds Tabbard for my
>> Shire.  I have been listening to comments for several months now and
>> believe I need to directly ask one question of this august
>> group. (yes, just one).  The College of Heralds crossed trumpets
>> emblem.  Some have told me it can go on anything a herald wears,
>> others have told me that it only rightfully belongs on a item used
>> by the College specifically.
>
> I would say that the crossed trumpets should only go onto something
> only if it is used for heraldic purposes.
>
> For a tabard for an SCA branch, the best thing is to have the branch's
> arms front, back, and sleeves.
>
> The concept of a "heralds' badge" is out of period, so I like to
> discourage it.  If you want a generic tabard, though, you could indeed
> put the crossed trumpets front, back, and sleeves.
>
> Please do NOT mix and match.  All period heralds' tabards and surcoats
> I've seen have the same design on each part.  And please do not do
> quartering: that would mean that you're the herald of the heir of the
> shire and the College of Arms, and I do *not* want to visualize THAT.
>
> Dankyn "unless I have the video distribution rights" de Linccolne
> --
> Tim McDaniel, tmcd at panix.com
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
>
>
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