[ANSTHRLD] Name Submission

[Mike C. Baker / Kihe Blackeagle]

>> > War, Politics, and the Irish of Leinster, 1156-1606  by Emmett O'Byrne
>> > There is a map showing the family's land holdings as well as several
>> > different written sections on their dealings in the area.
>> > Is this acceptable for documentation?  or do we need to look
>> > elsewhere.

<SNIP>

>> > Also I'm having trouble finding her given name Roxana.  Help?
>> That's a good Greek name. Actually, it's a Greek version of a Persian 
>> name... Not something you'd find up in Ireland, alas.
>>-Emma
> The names are all period spellings and the map is written as such.  The 
> name she is looking to pass is Failain (it has an accent over the first a)
>
> Does she need to look for another first name or can she mix the two?
> Catarina

"Roxana F{a'}ilain" -- barring a documented form of Roxana used IN Eire and 
WITH a Gaelic surname -- is going to most likely be at least two steps from 
period practice ("two weirdnesses", in the previously-common SCA heraldic 
vernacular), and thereby not registerable *as such*.

(Daniel, or someone else with more recent use-knowledge had better double 
check my use of the Da'ud notation -- and Catarina, you need to make sure I 
have the top of the accent pointed the right direction, as I *think* I may 
have it reversed _for Gaelic in this form_ as well as not having the 
original in front of me...)

One necessary evil in trying to match given names to the form of Failain 
found on the map is to try to more closely determine the actual date 
represented by the map where that spelling is found.  The range of dates 
given in the title (1156-1606) crosses at least two boundary conditions that 
I can think of insofar as Irish naming practices are concerned, and includes 
times when mixing Gaelic and "foreign" names was relatively unheard of AND 
times when that practice may have been expected (before the Norse influence 
had been completely post-English invasion).  'Twould be far better if the 
surname, in the desired spelling, can be found as the surname of an 
individual within the normal text of the work _and_ that (full) name is 
directly associated to a date or date range.

If this book also has Roxana in *any* form attached to an individual with a 
Gaelic surname pre-1600, it would go a long way toward improving the chances 
of the submission.

Note that use in a play script, novel, or other work of fiction will not be 
acceptable documentation in and of itself -- if we can't find it in the 
"normal" sources, I personally work under the assumed requirement of finding 
at least three distinct individuals from a minimum of two separate 
relatively independent sources whenever possible.  The current CoA rules 
should be consulted if there is any doubt, of course.  (See sig-note below: 
I'm [re-]assembling my personal reference material after a relative absence 
from active CoH participation, and too many years of relying on works held 
by local officers or other heralds...)

Variations upon "Roxana" that have been used in the past within the SCA 
context include Richende, possibly Rixende, and I believe even Roxanne (and 
those are all from memory -- the last may have been accomplished using 
mundane name allowance?).  For documented forms compatible with late-period 
Irish Gaelic, I would suggest possibly backtracking from "Rose" / "Rosie".

In what is perhaps the most well-known source for the personal feminine name 
Roxane (French spellynge), please note that the playwright was not even born 
until more than two centuries after 1600ce (Edmond Rostand died in 1918ce, 
_Cyrano de Bergerac_ was written sometime between his birth and that date; 
his birth year is uncertain according to the entry in the 1960 Britannica 
dictionary, but may have been 1869).

For additional reference, note also that the "real" French soldier and poet 
de Bergerac was born in 1619, died in 1655.

Amra, formerly (***) Purs.Ext. -- working without a net or (many 
(appropriate) ) books at hand

*** I hold a dated warrant from Star Principal Herald, as a Pursuivant 
Extraordinary.  Problem is, as I understand later developments, that it does 
not include an end date.  And Aureliane signed it *so* nicely, too... 
<VBEG>

ttfn - Mike / Pax ... Kihe / Adieu, Amra

Mike C. Baker
SCA: al-Sayyid Amr ibn Majid al-Bakri al-Amra
"Other": Reverend Kihe Blackeagle PULC (the DreamSinger Bard)
Opinions? I'm FULL of 'em
alt. e-mail: KiheBard at hotmail.com OR MCBaker216 at cs.com
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