[ANSTHRLD] A question on the closing of orders and the changing of their names

[Darin Herndon]

Notably, I am playing catch-up long after this topic but...

With the preamble that "things could have changed since..." and that
"Star Principal is THE authority."

Arcus Majoris was renamed to Arc d'Or.  Same order, no closing or other
such involved.  The existing order was renamed, not replaced.  So, if a
person was a member of the first then they are a member of the second
name.

Optio was different.  Optio was definitively closed.  The replacement
award (Sable Talon) specifically made provision in its award
constitution on how to treat the Optio members.  Without some provision
specifying how it is handled, closing an award or order and replacing it
with another does not automatically include prior membership in the new
award/order.  Because they are different awards/orders (for the same
thing doesn't matter), no presumption is made that previous recipients
have the new award/order.

If a barony were to close an award or order and open a replacement,
unless the new order specifically included the prior membership in its
definition (written in the constitution), members of the prior are not
in the new.  Membership though should not be confused with
responsibilities and privileges.  If the baron/baroness welcome members
of prior orders to consult with the new order, that is a baronial
tradition and right granted by the B&B; but it does not have to involve
membership in the new order.  Specifying it in the current order's
constitution would be a nice step to remove ambiguity, but welcoming
advice from the older order members is a B&B prerogative if they choose
to welcome it.

Etienne

-----Original Message-----
From: heralds-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org
[mailto:heralds-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of Tim McDaniel
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 2:47 PM
To: Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc.
Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] A question on the closing of orders and the
changing of their names

On Tue, 7 Nov 2006, Hillary Greenslade <hillaryrg at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Aside - I believe when the older awards were closed, that the Crown
> stated that all holders of the old awards could congregate, meet,
> discuss issues with the holders of the new award, as if they were
> one in the same.  However, the OP will still retain the old award
> abbreviation as the one presented and the OP is not to translate the
> old award to the new award.

I don't know if there's any kingdom-wide rule or whether it's true for
all baronies in Ansteorra, but I think that Bryn Gwlad allows members
of the Halberd (the closed baronial service order) to sit in meetings
with the Dregiau Bryn (sp?) (the existing baronial service order), and
I think they're all called up when a new member is being made.

Daniel de Lincolia, in a rush
-- 
Tim McDaniel, tmcd at panix.com
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