[ANSTHRLD] Questions about a tierce

[sandra goodrich]

Danial... I helped the client with this befor she took it to our herald, the Lady is blind, so there is a muddle in translation, what we came up with was Vert, a lilly slipped and leaved argent, a tierce ermine,  I hope this is some better, I've never helped  anyone without sight in this way befor, its challenging...'Stacia

tmcd at panix.com wrote:  On Sat, 25 Feb 2006, Donnchahd Beag mac Griogair
wrote:
>
> I have some questions about a device with a tierce. The device
> starts out as Vert, a tierce argent and a lily argent slipped and
> leaved Or.

Just to be certain: there's a green field, a natural lily plant in the
center (white flower, leaves and stem yellow), and on the viewer's
left the left 1/3 or 1/4 of the design is white?

The primary charge is the centermost charge, and is (almost always)
blazoned first. The CoA Glossary of Terms is a help here:

Primary Charge Group. The most important group of charges in a
piece of armory. In blazons, the primary charge group is usually
mentioned immediately after the field (though a strewn charge
group is not primary when it is blazoned before a central charge
group). If there is a central ordinary lying entirely on the
field, it is the primary charge. If there is no such central
ordinary, then the primary charge group is the set of charges of
the same size that lie in the center of the design and directly on
the field. An overall charge can never be the primary charge. In
any piece of armory with charges there will always be a primary
charge group, unless the only charges are peripheral. There cannot
be more than one primary charge group in any given design. In
Gules, a pale between two mullets argent, the pale is the primary
charge. In Or, a maunche between three roundels azure the maunche
is the primary charge. In Per chevron argent and sable, two roses
and a fleur-de-lys counterchanged and on a chief purpure three
hearts argent, the roses and fleur-de-lys are the primary charge
group, because they are all of about the same size and in a
standard arrangement. In Azure semy of mullets and a chief argent
the strewn mullets are the primary charge group; in Azure semy of
mullets, an eagle and a chief argent the eagle is the primary
charge. In Sable, a lion Or, overall a bend argent, the lion is
the primary charge. In Azure, a chief Or there is no primary
charge group. See also Overall Charge Group, Peripheral Charge
Group, Secondary Charge Group, Semy, Tertiary Charge Group.

It implies that a peripheral charge cannot be a primary charge, and
the tierce is a peripheral charge. So

Vert, a lily argent slipped and leaved Or, a tierce argent.

> Now one other thing my client would like is a pale (or palet) ermine
> where the argent and vert meet. Is this possible since the tierce
> is an ordinary and not a field devision?

Drawing a thin line to delimit the outline of a charge is called
"fimbriation". This thin line is an outline, touching the charge at
all points, not set off a little ways like "racing stripes" (cotises).
Rules for Submission VIII.3 says (I searched for "fimbria"):

Voiding and fimbriation may only be used with simple geometric
charges placed in the center of the design.

So the question is reversed: ordinaries are almost the only things
that CAN be fimbriated; field divisions cannot be fimbriated.

But notice the "in the center of the design". A tierce is peripheral,
so it can't be fimbriated.

As for ermine:

[Sable, a bend sinister gules fimbriated Or and overall a scorpion
argent] By previous precedent, "Ermine fimbriation is disallowed
(LoAR of 3 Aug 86, p.17), as are overall charges surmounting
fimbriated ordinaries (9 March 86, p.12)". This armory uses a
fimbriated ordinary surmounted by an overall charge, and thus is
not acceptable. [Sophie Davenport, 02/03, R-Æthelmearc]

Also, even if it were possible, an argent charge cannot be fimbriated
ermine -- it would be impossible to see the division between them.

> My other question has to do with conflict checking this device.
> When I looked up a tierce in the ordinary, it said see Flaunch and
> Gore. Does this mean that a tierce, flaunch, and gore do not get a
> CD from each other?

That's a good question, because usually the Ordinary's categories have
some connection with CDs. In this case, though, there is a CD between
a tierce, a flaunch, and a gore. RfS X.4.e, Type Changes [CD], says

Types of charges considered to be separate in period, for example
a lion and an heraldic tyger, will be considered different. A
charge not used in period armory will be considered different in
type if its shape in normal depiction is significantly different.

I'm 99% certain they were distinct charges in period, but my sources
are out in the car right now. So I suspect the Ordinary set up such a
category in the early days when there were very few of any of them --
maybe the compiler didn't want to bother with separate categories, or
was confused.

Danyell de Linccolne
-- 
"Me, I love the USA; I never miss an episode." -- Paul "Fruitbat" Sleigh
Tim McDaniel; Reply-To: tmcd at panix.com

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