[ANSTHRLD] Questions about a tierce

tmcd at panix.com tmcd at panix.com
Mon Feb 27 13:50:04 PST 2006


On Mon, 27 Feb 2006, Donnchadh <donnchadh at cornelius.norman.ok.us> wrote:
> > I haven't done a precedent dive to see whether there's rulings on
> > what types of flowers would conflict with a lily.
>
> Is it not always the case that anything listed as FLOWER-TRUMPET
> SHAPE in the SCA Ordinary would conflict?  I thought that was the
> whole point of those groupings.

As I mentioned on Saturday in a message to this list:

    That's a good question, because usually the Ordinary's categories
    have some connection with CDs.

"Usually", so I generally presume that Ordinary category by type ==
CD, but there are exceptions.

In Francois precedents, I do see

    [lily Or] Conflict with ... (Fieldless) A jonquil blossom bell to
    chief Or.  There is one CD for fieldlessness but nothing for the
    change in the type of flower. When a jonquil is in this posture,
    it is visually similar enough to a lily that we cannot give a CD
    for the change in type. [Eleanor Fairchild, 12/ 01, R-Ansteorra]

One dictionary I have says that jonquils are sometimes called
"rush-leaved daffodil", and another says "often used colloquially for
any yellow daffodil".  And the flowers I see on Google Images searches
for "daffodil" and "jonquil", I can't tell apart.

On the other hand, I find this precedent:

    [Argent chapé, a tulip purpure slipped and leaved vert]
    Conflict with ...  Argent, a tulip gules slipped and leaved
    vert. Tulips are like thistles, the slipping and leaving of a
    tulip makes up more than half the charge; therefore, it is the
    tincture of the slips and leaves rather than the tincture of the
    flower that is used when checking conflict. Because the plant
    portion of the tulip is more significant than the flower, there is
    not a CD for changing its tincture. Therefore there is only a
    single CD for the field. [Catharina de Bruyn, 09/00, R-Middle]

To remind, the possible conflict is
    Vert, a lily argent slipped and leaved Or.
versus
    (Fieldless) A daffodil slipped and leaved bell to chief argent.

Gaahhhh.  I hate heraldry sometimes.

Dankyn Lincoln
-- 
"Me, I love the USA; I never miss an episode." -- Paul "Fruitbat" Sleigh
Tim McDaniel; Reply-To: tmcd at panix.com




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