[ANSTHRLD] A question

[tmcd at panix.com]

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006, Jay Rudin <rudin at ev1.net> wrote:
> >I have a client whose arms were registered MANY years ago, she
> >would like to know what would be involved changing the natural blue
> >rose to a medieval blue rose.  Her arms are per pall of ermine,
> >argent and or which would not pass now we know. Should she try
> >change everything? If given her choice she would like to change as
> >littl as possible.

It's best to give the registered name and the full blazon.  From the
above and Robin's reply, I assume it's

    Tessa of the Gardens|8210X|d|Tierced en pointe Or, argent, and
    ermine, a pine tree eradicated and an eglantine flowered and
    budded azure, slipped and leaved vert.

On a submission, you can note that her file is listed on the archive
CDs under "Theresa of the Gardens", her previously registered name
(changed 2/05).  Might want ot draw a better pine tree, or else copy
the old one unchanged.

> Please tell Countess Tessa she has nothing to lose.  Her current
> arms remain hers until the new proposed ones pass, so she can't lose
> it.

An excellent point.  -- We don't change the picture (the emblazon)
sent up, so it can't be registered with changes that were not on her
new picture.  (Such changes *could* be a concern on a name change,
unless the submitter said on the form "please don't change my last
name" or whatever.)

The *blazon* will almost certainly be changed to something like "Per
pall Or, argent, and ermine, in fess a pine tree eradicated and a rose
azure slipped and leaved palewise vert".  But that's just the words to
describe the picture.

> I don't know whether the CoA would deem her field to be
> grandfathered or not

They would.  RfS VII is Compatible Armorial Content, and starts

    Every element in a piece of Society armory must be compatible with
    period armorial practices, as is required by General Principle
    I.1.a of these rules.  This section defines the categories of
    elements that the College of Arms has generally found to be
    compatible.

RfS VII.8 is

    8.  Registered Armorial Elements - Once an armorial element has
        been registered to an individual or group, the College of Arms
        may permit that particular individual or group to register
        that element again, even if it is no longer permissible under
        the rules in effect at the time the later submission is made.
        This permission may be extended to close relatives of the
        submitter if the College of Arms deems it appropriate.

        Only the actual armorial element from the originally
        registered submission may be covered by this permission.  For
        example, if an individual had registered armory containing a
        fimbriated lion many years ago, only that fimbriated lion
        would be covered under this rule, not fimbriated wolves,
        eagles, or lions in other postures.  The College of Arms might
        also agree to register this lion to the original submitter's
        children.  This allowance will not be granted for submitters
        other than the original owner under any other circumstances.

It says "may permit", but in practice, for grandfathered armory that's
recognizable (if now unregisterable), I'd be shocked if it weren't
registered.

The new one isn't that much closer to period style than the old one,
but it's nevertheless registerable.  I won't add the usual "barring
conflict", because I can't see any way that a new design with a blue
heraldic rose would not have the same conflicts as her existing design
with essentially a blue double rose.

Danielis Lindocolina
-- 
Tim McDaniel; Reply-To: tmcd at panix.com