[ANSTHRLD] strange question

[Jay Rudin]

Tim McDaniel" wrote:

> A baton *sinister* is often said to be *the* mark of bastardy, but it
> is by no means *the* mark, and may not have even been the most
> frequent mark.

It does appear, for that exact purpose, in the arms of the Dukes of Grafton, 
who descend from an illegitimate son of Charles II.  Based on a unclear 
drawing, those arms appear to be "In 1 and 4 France quartered with England, 
in 2, Scotland and in 3 Ireland, overall a baton sinister compony azure and 
argent", which is to say the arms of the Crown at that time, differenced 
with a baton sinister.

But it is certainly not the only mark of bastardy.

> "FREQUENTLY GIVEN ANSWERS (That Are Wrong)"
> by Master Gawain of Miskbridge
> (with assistance from Lady Alanna of Volchevo Lesa, Master Dmitrii
> Volkovich, and Master Da'ud ibn Auda)
> <http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/wrong.html>
>
>     6.  A bar sinister on a coat of arms shows that the bearer is a
>     bastard.
>
>     This is wrong in at least two ways. First, there is no such thing
>     as a "bar sinister" in heraldry. A bar is a narrow horizontal
>     stripe, so there is no way for it to be sinister. Second, one of a
>     number of marks of illegitimacy, well-known because it was used by
>     some acknowledged bastards of the French crown, was the "bendlet
>     sinister couped overall", also called a "baton sinister". This is
>     definitely not the only mark of illegitimacy used in period
>     heraldry.

According to Parker, "N.B. In French heraldic works the word barre is used 
as equivalent to a bend sinister, and this is supposed in many cases to be a 
mark of bastardy, Hence the expression is often found of a bar sinister, 
meaning a bend sinister."  Fassler is said to be listed in Riestapp with a 
blue field charged with a silver barrel on a gold barre sinister.  According 
to the Glossary of Heralid Terms available at 
http://www.nyrond.org/university/heraldry/www.demon.co.uk/apl385/gilling/herldref.htm, 
the word barre is "sometimes used to mean a bend sinister. A term used in 
French heraldry to mean a bend (usually dexter, but apparently occasionally 
also sinister). Historically it seems that barre, bande and bend(e) were 
interchangeable, and probably simply meant a stripe"

The mistake is believing that a French barre is the same as an English bar. 
Perhaps we need a clear term to define it -- we could identify a 
specifically English bar as a "pub".

Elsewhere, I have read that the bar sinister is heraldic illiteracy first 
introduced by Sir Walter Scott.

Robin of Gilwell / Jay Rudin