[ANSTHRLD] OP question - Court Baronies and Baronies in fief

[Donnchadh Beag mac Griogair]

There is a special version of a CB scroll for previous Landed B&Bs.  See 
page 51 of the Official Awards Texts at
http://heraldry.ansteorra.org/docs/AwardTexts2005.pdf

The current version of the scroll reads:

Know ye that we ______ King and Queen of
Ansteorra in recognition of loyal service as the
{Baron/ess} of ______ and further in
consideration of especial deeds ability and grace
do by this our Charter advance ______ to the rank
and estate of {Baron/ess} of the Court of
Ansteorra with all responsibilities and privileges
thereto appertaining with precedence dating from
{his/her} investiture as {Baron/ess} of ______
on the ______ day of ______ Anno Societatis ______
being Anno Domini ______.  This is so done and
given in our ________ on the ______ day of
______ Anno Societatis ______ being Anno
Domini ______.

    ________     ________
    King         Queen

So it specifically dates the precedence from the original investiture 
while stating that it is given on the current day.

I had just looked this up a couple of months ago for some wonderful 
scribes who were doing an original scroll and needed the words.

Donnchadh Beag mac Griogair
Baron of Namron

tmcd at panix.com wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Jan 2007, Kimberly Langhans <sarapenrose at yahoo.com> wrote:
>   
>> So the OP entry for the CB is backdated to stepping
>> up, but the scroll is not? Really?
>>     
>
> The 1999 charter texts document says, in its example,
>
>     A few years later when he stepped down as Baron of Raven's Fort,
>     the Crown chose to confer upon him a Court Barony, back-dated to
>     his investiture as Baron of Raven's Fort.
>
> I'm afraid that that makes no sense to me.
>
>     Know ye that we ______ and ______ King and Queen of Ansteorra in
>     consideration of especial service ability deeds and grace do by
>     this our Charter advance ______ to the Rank and Estate of
>     {Baron/Baroness} of the Court of Ansteorra with all
>     responsibilities and privileges thereto appertaining. This is so
>     done and given in our ________ on the ______ day of ______ Anno
>     Societatis ______ being Anno Domini ______.
>
>     ________ ________
>     King     Queen
>
> It says "so done and given ... on the ______ day of ______ Anno
> Societatis ______ being Anno Domini ______".  But the court barony was
> not announced at the elevation.  Madhi and Valeria, say, decided to
> give the traditional CB at the end of the tenure and I presume it's
> their signatures on the charter.  Back-dating it would be a lie, and
> would say that they were king and queen at the elevation instead of
> Jason and Saereid, for example.
>
> I'm no scribe; an experienced long-termer (Serena, maybe?) might be
> able to say for sure.  But as an outsider, In My insufficiently Humble
> Opinion, I think that putting anything but the date of the actual
> court action would be a Wrong Thing.  (I wonder whether it would fit
> period models to have the text amended to add "with precedence dating
> to <date>"?)
>
> Danel de Linccolne
>