[ANSTHRLD] OP question - Court Baronies and Baronies in fief

Crandall crandalltwo-scalists at yahoo.com
Mon Jan 15 16:29:59 PST 2007


It does not happen that often. 
Do we need a master, other than the official
wording? 

Crandall 

--- Darin Herndon <DHerndon at chkenergy.com> wrote:

> I love this thread.  It has people asking so
> many questions about
> precedence and rank in order to understand
> "why" and not just to get
> some blanket answer.
> 
> I love Master Daniel's citations and Master
> Robin's explanations.  These
> are the type of questions that make me love
> studying heraldry.
> 
> On the granting of a CB to stepping down
> Landed(s)...
> Kingdom Law, Article III, Section 3, Subsection
> 1, Item I states: "If
> the Crown grants a retiring landed noble the
> title of court baron or
> baroness, the precedence dates from the date of
> the landed noble's
> investiture as territorial baron or baroness." 
> Notice the "If"; it is
> the Crown's option and not a "given".  But, if
> it is done, then the
> precedence by law must date to the investiture.
>  Retiring B&Bs, who
> already had a CB before the investiture would
> not be granted another;
> you are only made a Baron/ess once (unless you
> resign it and then get
> another or some similar extreme example).
> 
> As a consequence, if retiring landeds received
> a CB, the RP (roll of
> precedence) has to be aware of both dates in
> some manner for their
> entry.  It must have the investing date so that
> precedence can be
> applied correctly (They rank before any CBs
> given during their time as
> landed who do not hold a higher rank).  It has
> to have the date actually
> given (or the stepping down date which is
> usually synonymous) because,
> first and foremost, that is a legal event and
> needs to be tracked so it
> can be verified. From a practical standpoint,
> the given date needs to be
> tracked so that it is possible to backtrack
> which Crown granted the CB
> for charter or achievement creation by the
> scribes.  (This raises a
> different problem since achievement texts may
> not have wording to cover
> someone whose highest rank is a Court barony
> backdated for this reason.
> Serena and Sara, can you look at the
> achievement text for a Court Barony
> and see if wording needs to be added as an
> option to allow for this?)
> 
> To go back to Sara's original question, the
> appropriate charter would be
> the one for former landed's but there are no
> masters for that yet.  For
> Golden Scroll purposes, I think it would be
> appropriate to have a master
> just for requests like this one.  Most landeds
> I talked to about this
> topic when I was Star were interested in
> commissioning original charters
> because of the significance of the event to
> them.  I never thought to
> suggest making a master to Star Signet for this
> when we published the
> new charter texts because we have no master for
> the investing of landeds
> (all originals as well).
> 
> Etienne
>  
>
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