[ANSTHRLD] OP question - Court Baronies and Baronies in fief

[Darin Herndon]

Lion of Ansteorra has precedence.  That precedence, according to our
march, would certainly line the Lions up before people who have received
no award recognition but behind anyone who had any award conveying an
armigerous (or higher) rank (if the recipient had no award but the
Lion).  If you had a group of Lions who had no other awards except the
Lion, you would at least line them up in the order they received the
award.

Lion of Ansteorra has no rank conveyed with the award.  Any award
received is an award received and you have something; you have the
award.  But what really starts the rankings and the order of precedence
is the rank conveyed directly or via an award.  An award of arms is a
conveyance of rank; it is not really an award, like a Sable Thistle, but
a bestowing of the direct rank of an armiger.  The Sable Thistle on the
other hand is an award that also conveys a rank and precedence and that
rank and precedence are defined fairly tightly in the award and order
constitutions.

But, Lion of Ansteorra has respect.  In a purely rank based culture, the
respect an award or grant or peerage conveyed would be synonymous with
the rank conveyed and the Lion has no additional rank.  But we are not a
purely rank based society and the respect accorded a Lion is much
greater than the rank we could give for precedence.  That has nothing to
do with how we line up people in a March of Precedence, which is an
objective and defined rank based line up.  It has everything to do with
who you invite to share your campfire, your meal, stories of past days,
etc.

In some cultures, and some kingdoms, the idea that an award could exist
for people who might be respected more highly (and for different
reasons) than a Duke is unthinkable.  In Ansteorra, we tend to give
respect where it is due; and while sometimes that respect is accompanied
by corresponding rank, our system recognizes that respect and rank are
not the same thing.

Etienne

-----Original Message-----
From: heralds-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org
[mailto:heralds-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of Tim McDaniel
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 3:25 PM
To: Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc.
Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] OP question - Court Baronies and Baronies in
fief

On Tue, 2 Jan 2007, Tomas Niallagain <siortomas at gmail.com> wrote:
> Why do we record Lions, or any of our awards that have no
> precedence.

Lion of Ansteorra has precedence, as shown in the Order of March at
<http://heraldry.ansteorra.org/OP/OM.pdf>.  It's level 20, just like
all the other Ansteorran kingdom non-armigerous awards (Rising Star,
King's Lancer, Sable Falcon, et cetera).

Even if the award did not convey precedence, it would nevertheless be
an award, so I would argue that it ought to be recorded.

Danyll Lincoln
-- 
Tim McDaniel, tmcd at panix.com
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