[ANSTHRLD] OP question - Court Baronies and Baronies in fief

[POP3 User]

Morgan asked:

> That's not a bad point.  I mean, it doesn't actually list Kings and
> Queens....  Look at any King or Queen who reigned more than
> twice.  But perhaps it should.  (I'm specifically talking about the
> interactive searchable OP here)  But that it shows things like Kings
> Blade of Honor or champions which have no precedence, an
> argument could certainly be made that it could list someone's time
> as a landed.  Is there anyone who knows why it perhaps was
> chosen to not be listed?

It was decided not to list ex-landed barons / baronesses in the Ansteorran 
Order of Precedence because ex-landed barons / baronesses are not listed in 
a medieval English, French, or other Order of Precedence, because those 
people do not currently have that rank.

I have asked why the Ansteorran OP lists ex-champions,  Premier Bards, etc., 
and have received no answer rooted in precednece, heraldry, or any other 
re-creative issue.  The answers are always purely practical: "We want to 
keep track of it somewhere, and that was the only place."

I have no idea if Gwyneth Sanquebarr, or Daniel and Siobhan from Elfsea, are 
listed as ex-barons ex-baronesses.  (As far as I know, they are the only 
three exes in Ansteorra's history who don't have CBs.)

We should keep track of the Ansteorran reigns, and we do.  That should not 
be in the OP, and it isn't.

We should keep track of the baronial reigns, and the baronies do.  The 
kingdom ought to as well, but not in the OP.

We should keep track of the ex-champions, and we do.  That should not be in 
the OP, but it is.

It is an open question whether the QBH and KBC are ceremonial offices like 
the Champions, or awards.  If they are awards, they should be in the OP.  If 
they are ceremonial offices, then either:
A. they should not be in the OP for the same reason ex-champions shouldn't, 
or
B. they should be where the Champions are, which is currently in the OP.

Isn't this fun?

But what does "should" mean in this discussion?  There is no moral principle 
involved.  I argue that things "should" be in the OP if their English 
equivalents would be in an English OP.  Others argue that things "should" be 
there if that is the convenient place to store them for Ansteorra's 
purposes.  There's no point in arguing over where things "should" be until 
we agree what principle we are shoulding.

Robin of Gilwell / Jay Rudin