[ANSTHRLD] baronial service awards

Darin Herndon DHerndon at chkenergy.com
Wed May 9 12:07:33 PDT 2007

Greetings List,

I think this one may need more than a simple, written item.  This topic
came up while I was Star and after asking a lot of different people what
I found was that some groups have, and continue, the tradition Master
Robin noted.  I found a lot of groups that do not follow the tradition
he notes and they have a series of former B&Bs who do not have the
award.  I found a couple of B&Bs who insisted the continuing entry in OP
showing membership for themselves was wrong and they wanted it removed.
At the time the topic came up the Crown included a former landed and the
direction I received was that it was not automatic.

I think this topic needs current Star and Crown discussion.  If
membership in the baronial order is bestowed automatically to landeds
(who are not already in the order), whether effective stepping up or
down, then this should be included in the section of kingdom law related
to B&Bs and the orders.  If it is not in kingdom law, then it becomes
(as today) inconsistently applied and it is really an edict (subject to
change as Crowns change) topic.  Either some former landeds have been
"robbed" of something they are due or others have received something
without conscious consideration.  This is not fair to someone and all it
requires is clarity from the Crown and a note in kingdom law to remove
any ambiguous possibilities.

On the other hand, like with a Court Barony, I think there is validity
to making a decision whether to grant the order after the landeds step
down.  If they did a poor job and were removed from office, it removes
any interpretation that they don't get a Court Barony but can keep the
order membership.  That just has the potential for being messy.

Good question.


-----Original Message-----
From: heralds-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org
[mailto:heralds-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of Kimberly
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 11:18 AM
To: Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc.
Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] baronial service awards

Really??? Man, someone should write this stuff down. I would say it's
common knowledge that B&Bs are the principals of their Baronial Service
Orders *while* they are landed, but this is the first time I've heard it
said that they retain the award afterward. I think it's perfectly
reasonable, mind you, but I had no idea that's how it worked. Does it
still work that way, or has there been a recent shift (the comment about
the Baronial Service Order being awarded to landeds *before* their
stepping up makes me wonder)? If anyone had asked me, my answer would
likely have been similar to William's.
  Off to check some OP entries...

Jay Rudin <rudin at ev1.net> wrote:
  This one is based on experience, not logic. It became traditional long
that the B&B are in fact members of the baronial service orders, and
it afterwards, despite the fact that Crowns do *not* retain membership
the various kingdom orders.

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