[ANSTHRLD] Suggestions needed

[Darin Herndon]

Elizabeth,

Barring conflict with someone else's badge or arms, removing the laurel wreath may make a fine populace badge.  But it should be registered.  Consider, if someone registers arms with a white background and a big green X and a gold tower in the middle of the X.  They would have two differences from your group arms (color of the X and the wreath) but only one from what you are using as a populace badge.  If their arms are registered, then your populace badge would be in conflict with them.

It is not correct to presume that removing the laurel wreath automatically makes a populace badge.  It is fine to register just such a badge if it is registerable and use it for just such purposes as a populace badge.

Technically, only the noble of a landed group (which for non-baronies is the Crown) and their herald while acting for them should wear the arms as a tabard.  There may be some SCA tradition that I am unaware of about seneschals in non-baronies but I'll defer to those with more history.  That would be an SCA tradition and not period practice if that was the case.

The herald's tabard you described would not be period practice.  The herald, when in tabard, should always present himself or herself as speaking for the noble whose arms they are wearing.  And those should be the exact arms of whomever they are representing.  When they want to share a personal opinion or engage in an activity, they should remove the tabard.  That would not be the noble's opinion or the noble who chose to drink that much or the noble who chose to mud wrestle.  Because, when in tabard you speak for the noble or group and you wear that noble's or group's arms.  Not a modified version of their arms but the actual arms.  Nor a quartered version, which suggests you are speaking for both the noble and the College of Arms and all heralds when you declare war on your neighboring group (hopefully in fun).

If you ever get to see a formal broadcast of anything involving heralds and the British royal family, you will see all of the heralds wearing the royal arms.  (Try for a rebroadcast of the funeral of the Queen Mother for example.)  If two heralds announce a knight to the field together, they can both wear the knight's arms as a tabard.  And they are all wearing tailored, but not modified, tabards of only one thing; the arms of the noble for whom they speak.

Etienne

-----Original Message-----
From: heralds-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [mailto:heralds-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Blackthorne
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 11:26 PM
To: Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc.
Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] Suggestions needed

In Crossrode Keep, we just remove the laurel wreath.  My understanding
has always been that only the seneschal and landed nobles of the
particular branch can wear the full ensign but if you remove the
laurel wreath, it only denotes you as a member.  Was my education
wrong?  If so please tell me so that I can cease telling our newbies
this.

Our shire device is (in plain American English, not heraldic terms) a
big red "X" with a gold castle in the center of the "X" on a white
background, with a green laurel wreath around the border.  I was
thinking about creating a heralds tabord, specifically for our group,
that had the 2 horns crossed in an "X"(like our red "X") with the
castle in the center.  Would this be stepping on rules and such?  I
apologize that though I am not new, I don't know much about this area
of the SCA.
Elizabeth

On Nov 8, 2007 10:59 PM, Jennifer Smith <jds at randomgang.com> wrote:
>
> > I am not sure what other groups have registered for their ensigns.
>
> Oooo, would that be a neat page somewhere? A grouping of all branch arms,
> together with their populace badges, if any?
>
> (I already have artwork for branches done -- Yes, Alasdair, excepting the
> corrected Steppes one anyway...)
>
> -Emma
>
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