[ANSTHRLD] Fwd: My Name Submission woes

TinyGypsyLady tinygypsylady at yahoo.com
Mon Sep 10 06:48:18 PDT 2007

Can someone tell me what I need to do in order to help My Lady Suzanna??

shark <shark75080 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
  Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 17:31:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: shark <shark75080 at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: My Name Submission woes
To: TinyGypsyLady <tinygypsylady at yahoo.com>

Hi Lady,
I was poking around on the kingdom herald site and noticed that my name app had a comment from Kingdom request that my letter from St. Gabriel could be added - I would have provided this but I submitted my name at Warlord and didn't have access to this info. It should have been on file with my first submission.

Anyway, I have copied and pasted it here. Can you take care of this or do I need to wait until this comes back so that I can add it. This is taking forever..... 

The notice below documents my choice of Caldwell. The submission I did at Warlord dated may/2007 includes the documentation for Susanna and Nightegale.

My full name is or should be Susanna Nightegale of Caldwell. I have the documentation for the first two names... it's all in Reaney Wilson. I think Caldwell is documented in that book, too, as well as in the letter below.

Please tell me what we need to do to get this back into the system.


My letter from St. Gabriel:


27 Mar 2005
From: Josh Mittleman 

Greetings from the Academy of Saint Gabriel!

You asked whether , , or Caldwell> is an appropriate name for a woman in southern Scotland or
northern England between 1150 and 1300. Here is what we have found.

The name appears in English sources as early as the late 12th
century, but did not become common until the 16th century [1, 1a]. It
was recorded in Suffolk as in 1194 and in Berkshire in 1206.
An example was recorded in Yorkshire as in 1298. All of
these are Latinized written forms; the <-a> ending was not used in
spoken English. A better indication of the English form of name can
be found in a couple surnames: 1279 in Oxfordshire,
where the apostrophe probably indicates a missing final letter, very
likely an <-e>; and 1326 in Suffolk [2]. The
earliest Scottish example we have is in 1584 [3]. It was
definitely a rare name in your period, but it was used at least as far
north as Yorkshire. In spoken English, the name was probably
and probably pronounced \soo-ZAHN-n@\.

The first of the surnames you asked about, , is a fine
choice, though perhaps not in this spelling. Spellings used in your
period included [4]:

de Brus 12th century
Bruwes 1240
Bruys 1240
Bruze 1251
Brywes 1254
Brues 1255

Most of these spellings imply a two-syllable pronunciation with a
final \s\ sound, \BROO-uhss\. The final <-e> in your spelling is not

Your second choice, , is also a good choice, though again
not in exactly this form. In Scotland, the name derived from a place
in Renfrewshire; the earliest example we have there is Caldwell> 1342 [5]. An English place with the same name gave rise to
the same surname there; it was Latinized in 1195 [6].
Either or is a fine written form of this
surname for your period; in spoken English it was probably Caldwell> (where was pronounced \ohf\ rather than \uv\, with \oh\
being the vowel in the word ).

Your third surname, , isn't as clearly a good choice for your
period. It appears to derive from a Gaelic phrase that meant "mouth
of [the river] Roe". This placename was apparently transferred to
somewhere in Scotland: Early examples of the surname in Scotland take
the form "from Monro". The earliest examples we have found
are from the 14th century: It's possible the surname didn't exist in
your period. If it did, we would expect it to be written 
[7, 8, 9].

In summary, or are fine
12th-13th century names for a woman from Yorkshire and perhaps further
north. may be a good choice, but is not as well

We hope this letter has been useful. Please write us again if any
part of it has been unclear or if you have other questions. I was
assisted in researching and writing this letter by Talan Gwynek,
Gunnvor Silfraharr, and Aryanhwy merch Catmael.

For the Academy,

Arval Benicoeur
27 Mar 2005

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


[1] Withycombe, E.G., _The Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names_,
3rd ed. (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1988), s.n. Susan.

[1a] Talan Gwynek, unpublished research based on 16th century London
parish registers. In this data, various forms of together are
the 7th most common feminine name, accounting for about 5% of

[2] Reaney, P. H., & R. M. Wilson, _A Dictionary of English Surnames_
(London: Routledge, 1991; Oxford University Press, 1995),
s.nn. Gowthorpe, Susan.

[3] Talan Gwynek, "A List of Feminine Personal Names found in Scottish
Records" (WWW: Academy of Saint Gabriel, 1996).

[4] Black, George F., _The Surnames of Scotland: Their Origin, Meaning
and History_, (New York: The New York Public Library, 1986),
s.n. Bruce.

[5] Black s.n. Caldwell.

[6] Reaney and Wilson s.n. Caldwell.

[7] Black s.n. Munro.

[8] Reaney and Wilson s.n. Munro.

[9] Histories of the Munro clan claim descent from a Foulis> who died in 1126; and mention other chiefs of the clan in the
13th century [10, 11, 12]. These claims are not well-substantiated:
They are apparently based either on undocumented oral history or
documents that mentioned ancestors of the Munros without using a form
of the name . The name itself does not appear before
the 14th century, as far as we have discovered.

[10] Bain, Robert, "The Clans and Tartans of Scotland", 5th ed. (Glasgow &
London: Fontana/Collins, 1985), s.n. Munro.

[11] The same dates can be found on many Clan Munro websites.

  Viviana Rowntree
  Oakenwald Pursuivant
  Life's Journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body,but rather to skid in sideways,totally worn out, shouting "Holy Shit...What A Ride!"

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