[ANSTHRLD] Permission to conflict??

[Bob Wade]

I don't think the citations from Corpora actually apply to the latest discussions ...

Jay Rudin <rudin at ev1.net> wrote:    Sara wrote:

> Isn't there some point at which property is considered
> abandoned? If someone isn't active and hasn't used
> their registered heraldic information for 20 years or
> something, are we really still obliged to protect it?
....
  > Personally, I think registrations should be tied to
> membership in some way. Maybe something like: if your
> membership lapses for 15 years (or you go 15 years
> without joining), then your name and device
> registrations lapse or expire also.

It sounds so reasonable, but under close analysis, it doesn't fit either 
the mundane legal or the period aspects of what we do.

First, let's deal with the legal issue. When I paid for registration, the 
heraldic rules and Corpora were both clear that registration was permanent. 
They published the conditions of registration and the price, and I followed 
the rules and paid my fee. That constitutes a binding, legal contract, and 
the SCA has no legal right to unregister the mustache badge, or my arms or 
name, at any time, regardless of my later level of activity.

The SCA could decide to sell a lesser form of registration from now on, but 
names and devices registered permanently are, well, ... permanent.
  The binding contract in Corpora is for unique <emphasis> armory.  It is the Rules for Submission that extend the promise of "uniqueness" (under the sections on "Presumption") to include both uniqueness plus protection against claiming a close familial relationship.
   
  To date, the Permission to Conflict discussion is asking for a 1 CD difference, not identical armory.  Uniqueness hasn't been called into question, only presumption.
    But let's look at the purely internal SCA effect it would have. What are 
arms and abdges for?

Torgatai Blackwolf and Richard of Montroyal haven't been seen since the 
1970s. They were gone before I joined. But are their arms "abandoned"? 
They are seen on the Steppes Warlord cloak, and displayed by the field at 
each Steppes Warlord. Shall we ignore the legacy of Richard, who founded 
the Steppes, and was the winner of the first tournament on May Day A.S.1? 
Shall we drop Torgatai's Warlord shield, when his Queen of Love and Beauty 
still attends Warlord?

Of course not. These arms are still in use, even though Richard and 
Torgatai will probably never be seen again. And if they do return to a 
Warlord tourney, they will see that their achievements are still remembered 
and honored.

Aureliane, Exiter, Anne-Louise and Adelicia may never return, but they 
ruled the Steppes, and their arms are displayed as part of our history at 
major Steppes events. When Allemanius returned after *many* years away, he 
found his arms on display as the founding baron. Does that not have 
heraldic value?

Suppose somebody no longer comes to events, but he still has a scroll with 
his arms on it up on his living room wall. Are these arms "abandoned"?

Suppose somebody left Ansteorra and now just gives calligraphy lessons is 
some obscure shire in An Tir? How would we know if she still uses her arms 
at guild meetings in her own house?

If Lloyd and Joselyn ever return to an event, I would love to see their 
snake and fox banners.

And are you willing to see some newbie come out and fight with Inman's 
arms?

If we have any desire to re-create the attitudes and actions of the Middle 
Ages and Renaissance, then someone's right to his or her arms is permanent.

Robin of Gilwell / Jay Rudin 
  Precedents and the RfS change are constantly changing.  When your Device was passed, the RfS counted "Cadency" Differences.  With your latest Badge it was "Clear" Differences which were counted.  Then there's The Modest Proposal ...
   
  The point is, the discussion should now be about how, if it at all, the definitions for presumption should be modified in the RfS.  It's not a Corpora question at this point.
   
  Tostig
     
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