[ANSTHRLD] Heralds Digest, Vol 24, Issue 14

Angela Scott silvrbnd at yahoo.com
Fri Apr 18 06:45:56 PDT 2008


Greetings, 
   
  Myself and another are filling in temporarily for Bonwicke and the previous herald had been working on some submissions and we are trying to get these finished and sent in after our event on the 26th. 
   
  Will the Ansteorran NR or kingdom herald please contact me off list to help walk me through this process.  silvrbnd at yahoo.com
   
  Thanks, 
  Juliana Hughes 
  Chronicler and former herald deputy of Bonwicke

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Today's Topics:

1. Submissions received (Sweet, Debby)
2. Re: Submissions received (Irena Fridenberg)
3. Re: Permission to conflict?? (radei at moscowmail.com)
4. Re: Permission to conflict?? (Jay Rudin)
5. Re: Submissions received (Alden Drake)


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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:59:30 -0500
From: "Sweet, Debby" 
Subject: [ANSTHRLD] Submissions received
To: "Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc."

Message-ID:
<4A572DC4A5829844A066B93949B170EC1ECBE81EE6 at STWEXE1.ad.okstate.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I've received another packet from Star with more Gulf Wars submissions.
Hooray!

And earlier this week I received a packet from Wiesenfeuer.

Hooray!

More submitting please.

Estrill Asterisk


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:16:58 -0500
From: "Irena Fridenberg" 
Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] Submissions received
To: "Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc."

Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Viviat Asterisk!!!!
Work! Work! Work!

On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Sweet, Debby 
wrote:

> I've received another packet from Star with more Gulf Wars submissions.
> Hooray!
>
> And earlier this week I received a packet from Wiesenfeuer.
>
> Hooray!
>
> More submitting please.
>
> Estrill Asterisk
> _______________________________________________
> Heralds mailing list
> Heralds at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/heralds-ansteorra.org
>



-- 
Lady Katrine la Escolpiera
Province of Mooneschadowe
Kingdom of Ansteorra
...
"In democracy it's your vote that counts; In feudalism it's your count that
votes."-Mogens Jallberg


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:35:02 -0600
From: radei at moscowmail.com
Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] Permission to conflict??
To: "Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc."

Message-ID: <20080417163503.1A67B11581F at ws1-7.us4.outblaze.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Your defination of "Fraud" is questionable. 

"Terms and Conditions of service may change without notice" is a standard in credit cards, and other service contracts. Take a look at the fine print in any of the terms of service for any of your personal "Contracts". 

The Service Provider, hereafter known as the Company, reserves the right to change terms at any time. Unless the customer responds in a reasonable time it is termed an acceptance of new "Terms of Service".

I do not mean we should change the service, just an observation of the world as it exists.



> I was told that my armory and name would be protected if I paid the fee and
> it passed. I was told that nobody else could register my armory without my
> consent. That's what I paid for. Why are we looking for a way to not
> protect armory that people paid good money to protect? The act of
> registration for a fee is a valid legal contract.
> 
> I realize that there's a lot of armory from people who joined, registered
> something and then left forever. I recognize the frustrations in trying to
> avoid conflict , but we said we would protect it, and we have to do it.
> The technical term for accepting money for a service and then changing the
> conditions of service unilaterally is "fraud".
> 
> Robin of Gilwell / Jay Rudin
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Heralds mailing list
> Heralds at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/heralds-ansteorra.org

>



Radei
Vasil House of the Red Shark
Guild of St. Camillus de Lellis

This we know: All things are connected.
Like the blood which unites one family,
All things are connected.
Whatever befalls the earth,
Befalls the sons of the earth.
Man did not weave the fabric of life,
He is merely a strand on it.

- Chief Seattle




-- 
Want an e-mail address like mine?
Get a free e-mail account today at www.mail.com!



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:12:58 -0500
From: "Jay Rudin" 
Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] Permission to conflict??
To: "Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc."

Message-ID: <01b401c8a0ae$494d8570$4000a8c0 at jay>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

Radei wrote:

> Your defination of "Fraud" is questionable.

I don't have a definition of fraud. I use the one in *Black's Law 
Dictionary*. "Fraud: n intentional perversion of truth for the purpose of 
inducing another in reliance upon it to part with some valuable thing .... 
It comprises all acts, omissions, and concealments involving a breach of a 
legal or equitable duty and resulting in damage to another.... Fraud, as 
applied to contracts, is the cause of an error bearing on a material part 
of the contract, created or continued by artifice, with design to obtain 
some unjust advantage to the one party, or to cause an inconvenience or 
loss to the other."

In other words, if they create an error in the original contract 
("registration is permanent regardless of later changes in the rules" no 
longer applies), in order to cause me loss (my arms, badge and name are 
lost), that's fraud.

> "Terms and Conditions of service may change without notice" is a
> standard in credit cards, and other service contracts. Take a look
> at the fine print in any of the terms of service for any of your
> personal "Contracts".

That's correct. And why is it there? Because if those words were not 
written into the contract you signed, then changing the conditions 
unilaterally would be illegal, because it would be fraudulent. "Fraudulent 
alteration: A change in the terms of an instrument, contract or other paper 
made with a dishonest and deceitful purpose to acquire more than one is 
entitled to under the original terms of the paper". In other words, I paid 
them a fee for permanent registration. The paper said that the 
registration was permanent. If they change the rules so that they can sell 
it to somebody else, a right they were not entitled to under the original 
paper, then that is a fraudulent alteration.

If, however, the original paper said that they could change the terms, then 
it's legal, because they always had the right to change it. That's why the 
clause is needed in financial contracts. Without your signature attached 
to those words, they cannot do it.

The College of Arms have always reserved the right to change how conflict 
is counted, and how registration is accomplished, but they have also always 
stated that, despite any subsequent changes in the rules, registration is 
permanent.

> The Service Provider, hereafter known as the Company, reserves the
> right to change terms at any time. Unless the customer responds in a
> reasonable time it is termed an acceptance of new "Terms of Service".
>
> I do not mean we should change the service, just an observation of
> the world as it exists.

The world as it exists, since the Statute of Frauds was passed in England 
in 1677, and became the basic model for the Fraud laws in all 50 United 
States, is that knowingly changing a contract unilaterally, without a 
clause allowing you to do it, in a way which takes the other party's rights 
away, is fraud.

But I will back off my original point a little. If cancelling permanent 
registration is proposed by people who do not know the original terms, then 
that is not fraud, which requires intent to deceive. You could make the 
case that if the College of Arms intended registration to be permanent when 
they took my money, then no fraud occurred. It remains breach of contract, 
however, and a violation of contract law.

More important, why should an organization with a strong commitment to 
honor suddenly decide not to honor its commitments to its members?

Robin of Gilwell / Jay Rudin



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 13:22:43 -0500
From: Alden Drake 
Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] Submissions received
To: "Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc."

Message-ID: <48079573.1080708 at sbcglobal.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

That's all the submissions I have to send you from GW. The rest of the 
submissions I currently have will be sent back to the submitters for 
them to process through their local heralds - just as soon as I get some 
stamps. :)

Alden

Sweet, Debby wrote:
> I've received another packet from Star with more Gulf Wars submissions.
> Hooray!
>
> And earlier this week I received a packet from Wiesenfeuer.
>
> Hooray!
>
> More submitting please.
>
> Estrill Asterisk
> _______________________________________________
> Heralds mailing list
> Heralds at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/heralds-ansteorra.org
>
> 




------------------------------

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End of Heralds Digest, Vol 24, Issue 14
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