[ANSTHRLD] Royal Crowns (was Re: arms - your thoughts)

[Darin Herndon]

Referring to Daniel's citations below:

I have no doubt that there are coronets or crowns that in form don't match current, local sumptuary law or practice.  They may or may not match period practice where sumptuary laws came into effect in period practice.  That is part of the reason for the exceptions documented in the last point of Ansteorra's sumptuary law.  Also, while there are Crowns and certain symbolic elements that are reserved to our reigning royalty, Royalty can choose to wear a coronet that appears plainer or lesser.  There are things reserved to them, but they don't have to use them.  (Though it makes telling them apart from high ranking nobility easier when coronet watching at events.)

But, I do have to clarify something that Daniel's citations clearly indicate I made or presented unclearly.  A crown is a royal coronet.  The term coronet is a word that can include royal and non-royal items.  My concern in the second comment quoted from me (copied below) was in distinguishing Crowns from non-royal coronets, in light of the prior topic.  In truth, I presented that in a slightly sloppy way (it does read and indicate that the terms crown and coronet are mutually exclusive, which they are not in one direction) and I apologize for the confusion I may have caused.

So, the quoted sections of Ansteorran Sumptuary Law below are still relevant to my assertion.  "CROWNS or CORONETS bearing..."  There is a difference between the two as one term is more all inclusive and the other more specific.  "CORONETS bearing a Queen's Rose... are restricted to the Queen."  A Queen can wear a coronet, including specifically (but not limited to) a Crown, with the reserved element mentioned.

Etienne

-----Original Message-----
From: heralds-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [mailto:heralds-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of tmcd at panix.com
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 3:32 PM
To: Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc.
Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] Royal Crowns (was Re: arms - your thoughts)

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008, Darin Herndon <darin.herndon at chk.com> wrote:
> Differing crowns from coronets is a matter of correctness and
> precision.

If I were to hand you the most ancient crown of the Middle Kingdom,
you couldn't tell me whether it was for a king, a duke, a count, or a
baron.

> The differentiation of crowns from coronets is not a heraldic
> conflict issue but a sumptuary issue.  The relevant differences are
> contained in kingdom laws rather than the RfS.

The law that begins (UPPERCASING mine)

    Article IX : CORONET Sumptuary Laws

    CROWNS or CORONETS bearing 1 or more Ansteorran Stars (a mullet of
    5 lesser and 5 greater points) are restricted to the Crown, the
    Heirs, former Crowns of Ansteorra, and former territorial barons
    and baronesses of Ansteorra as set forth below.

    Section 1 : Royal CROWNS

        A. CORONETS bearing a Queen's Rose (a rose sable charged with
           a rose or, thereon a mullet of five greater and five lesser
           points sable) are restricted to the Queen.

Danihel de Lindo Colonia
--
Tim McDaniel; Reply-To: tmcd at panix.com
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