[ANSTHRLD] [Fwd: Heraldry announcement for Commentary

Kimberly Langhans sarapenrose at yahoo.com
Thu Jul 10 11:44:47 PDT 2008

I know we weren't asked to comment on this, but I actually kinda don't like that peers are able to include the symbols of their peerage in their arms. It seems to me like an invitation for people to turn their arms into a fluid, visual record of their awards - "oh, I'm a Pelican now, so I need to add a pelican to my device." It seems like full achievements are a much better place to incorporate that sort of thing - Pelicans make great crests, and it's easy and logical to encircle the base of a helm with a knight's chain.

I'd rather do away with the permission to use those symbols (does anyone use them, BTW? I've never seen anyone with a pelican or knight's chain as part of their device), and keep the laurel wreath on group arms. I think the wreath serves a useful purpose: it allows us to readily identify which arms belong to groups and which belong to people. That distinction lets us easily locate which pavilion belongs to the local group at an event, so we can find the baron or seneschal or autocrat more easily; and at wars, it helps us distinguish between private encampments (where we might be intruding) and group encampments (where there might be a communal area). Personally, it doesn't bother me that the purpose the wreath serves is an SCA-specific one. I think our SCA traditions have their own merit and worth. 

Loch Soilleir

--- On Thu, 7/10/08, kevinkeary at aol.com <kevinkeary at aol.com> wrote:

> From: kevinkeary at aol.com <kevinkeary at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] [Fwd:  Heraldry announcement for Commentary
> To: heralds at lists.ansteorra.org
> Date: Thursday, July 10, 2008, 1:10 PM
> I know they are separate issues and separate proposals, but
> the two 
> issues in this request for commentary ARE related by what
> Robin points 
> out as the single argument in favor of thsi requirement: A
> laurel 
> wreath marks a device as territorial arms. If members of
> the Order of 
> the Laurel are permitted to include a laurel wreath in
> their arms -- 
> and there's no logical reason for denying them this
> given the fact that 
> the other peerages and nobility can use THEIR symbols of
> rank -- then 
> that utility is gone anyway. If you see a device you are
> unfamiliar 
> with that includes a laurel wreath, it might be territorial
> arms OR 
> those of a Laurel peer.
> Kevin
> Northkeep


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