[ANSTHRLD] Submission Question

Thu May 15 19:43:10 PDT 2008

I am the Bonwicke Chronicler but due to some family issues our Herald had to step down and we are currently taking applications. Myself (a former deputy herald) and another member of the group stepped in to finish up the few things that were almost ready to submit so they didn't get lost. So I am kind of flying by the seat of my pants since we had never done a submission before and trying to work with what I have. 

  Thanks for the info, 
  Lady Julianna

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: online OP (Kimberly Langhans)
2. Re: online OP (Tim McDaniel)
3. Ansteorran Heraldic and Scribal (and MORE) Symposium, June
28th - more classes (Hillary Greenslade)
4. Device (Russell S)
5. Submission question (Angela Scott)
6. Re: Submission question ( Alasdair MacEogan )
7. Halberd Default Question (JOHN KELLER)
8. Re: Submission question (Kathleen O'Brien)
9. Re: Submission question ( Alasdair MacEogan )
10. Re: Submission question (Kathleen O'Brien)
11. Re: Device (Bob Wade)

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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 11:44:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kimberly Langhans 
Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] online OP
To: "Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc."

Message-ID: <523048.30723.qm at web50503.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

As a scribe, I regularly refer to both the OP and the O&A for spellings - I use the O&A to check for the "real", registered spelling and I check the OP only on the off-chance the recipient has a preferred spelling listed in their OP entry that is different than the registered one. I *never* use the name/device registration information in the OP - I don't even look at it. 

s

--- On Wed, 5/14/08, Jay Rudin wrote:

> From: Jay Rudin 
> Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] online OP
> To: "Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." 
> Date: Wednesday, May 14, 2008, 11:33 AM
> Daniel de Lincoln wrote:
> 
> > I think that registration information should not be in
> the Roll of
> > Precedence. If maintained religiously, it's a
> duplication of effort
> > with the on-line Armorial; if not, it's
> out-of-date and unreliable.
> 
> I used to agree, until I was told what the entry is
> actually used for.
> 
> You are correct, if you think the code is about the
> individual, rather than 
> about the name. But the OP is where scribes go to find out
> if somebody 
> already has an award being considered, and to find the
> spelling of the name 
> for the award scroll. The code actually means, not that
> the person 
> represented by this entry has (or doesn't have) a
> registered name, but that 
> the actual name listed was (or was not) verified in the
> armorial when 
> entered into the OP.
> 
> The code of "No" is often out-of-date, if you
> think it means "this person 
> has no registered name". What it really means,
> however, is "When this name 
> was added to the OP, there was no registered
> spelling." Therefore the 
> herald who entered the data has no definitive form of the
> name, so the 
> spelling in front of you might not be correct. That
> statement remains true 
> even after the name is registered, until somebody checks
> the registered 
> spelling against the entry, at which point the code is
> updated.
> 
> Similarly, the code of "Yes" doesn't mean
> "This person has a registered 
> name," but rather "You can stop here and not
> check the Armorial, because 
> this is the registered form of the name." That's
> always up-to-date except 
> for the relatively few people who change the registered
> form of their name.
> 
> (Of course, when people keep using different forms, such as
> "Danthing of 
> Lynkplace", it's impossible to keep up.)
> 
> Robin of Gilwell / Jay Rudin 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Heralds mailing list
> Heralds at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/heralds-ansteorra.org

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 13:50:11 -0500 (CDT)
From: Tim McDaniel 
Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] online OP
To: "Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc."

Message-ID: 

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

On Wed, 14 May 2008, Kimberly Langhans wrote:
> --- On Wed, 5/14/08, eirik at hot.rr.com wrote:
>> As co-coordinator of the Online Armorial, I don't mind
>> the duplication at the moment. It keeps people informed.
>
> I believe that Daniel was referring not to your ongoing project, but
> rather to the SCA-wide Ordinary and Armorial:
> http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/OandA/index.html

Exactly so.

Danet de Lyncoln
-- 
Tim McDaniel, tmcd at panix.com

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 17:30:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Hillary Greenslade 
Subject: [ANSTHRLD] Ansteorran Heraldic and Scribal (and MORE)
Symposium, June 28th - more classes
To: ansteorra , Coastal
, southern at lists.ansteorra.org, Heralds
, Ansteorran_Scribes

Message-ID: <348527.74025.qm at web51609.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Greetings Ansteorrans, 
Teacher class Registration for Ansteorran Heraldic and Scribal Symposium (and MORE!) is still open - don't miss out on getting your class listed. 

Questions asked: 
? Can I teach the same class as what I'm teaching at King's College? 
Absolutely, you will likely be teaching to a different audience, or it will give someone a chance to take the class who couldn't get to King's College. 

? Is there room for messy classes? You bet, we have a large enclosed grassy courtyard, surrounded by a covered porch, check with us for details.

? Can you accept other classes beside Heralds and Scribes? 
Yes! In fact, we are seeking related classes to Heralds and Scribes in a variety of art mediums that can be used for Ansteorran Insignia: 
-inkle weaving (Iris and Star ribbons), 
-kumihimo braiding (belt awards), 
-wood/metal/resin/ceramic-painting/needlework - for insignia medalions. 

Alternate classes for scribal arts:
-paper marbeling, 
-bookbinding, 
-papermaking, 
-ink making, 
-quill cutting, 
-vellum preparation, 
-survey of modern papers - 
-even a class on picture framing for the novice so we know how to frame those award scrolls. 

Alternate classes for heraldic arts include:
-heraldic costume applique, 
-Ansteorran tabard making, 
-Banner Making
-how to be a herald for a pas-d'arms, 
-glass engraving and ceramic painting for a heraldic dinner setting, 
-stain glass painting for heraldic arms 
-how to paint a tent with your heraldic arms (materials to use, how to enlarge the design). 

If you have a class and want to know how it fits in, ask us. This event is not just for 'H'eralds and 'S'cribes, but for all of Ansteorra. 

Regional education class space is also available (senechals, exchequers, chirurgeons, etc). 

Check out the website at: 
http://westgate.ansteorra.org/ahss

See you then, Hillary

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 17:32:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Russell S 
Subject: [ANSTHRLD] Device
To: heralds at lists.ansteorra.org
Message-ID: <416386.58887.qm at web62203.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Greetings all,

My device registration is #9 on the Feb ICC and since it was kicked back I was wondering if there would be a conflict if I resubmitted it as (Azure, a wolf rampant within a bordure embattled Or), If that is even the correct wording.

I recently became the Herald of Fynnon Gath and am trying to learn as much and as fast as I can.

Thank you all in advance,
Ulrich 

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 17:40:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Angela Scott 
Subject: [ANSTHRLD] Submission question
To: heralds at lists.ansteorra.org
Message-ID: <419259.55217.qm at web65605.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Who do I make the check out to that we send in with submissions

Lady Julianna

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 20:18:21 -0500
From: " Alasdair MacEogan " 
Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] Submission question
To: "Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc."

Message-ID: <20080515011821.24924.qmail at server289.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Sorry, as I do not know if you are the local heradl or the submitter, I will start from the beginning. For reference you can get the info at the botton of this page ( http://heraldry.ansteorra.org/docs/whosends.php ). Please someone double check me as i am not 100% sure it is accurate.

The submitter write a check to the local branch (amount is $8 per item btw. Some have not gotten the word ;-)). The local group will then write a check for $7 per item made out to SCA Inc. - Kingdom of Ansteorra CoH. (Hmm. I always thought it it was just SCA Inc. - Kingdom of Ansteorra)

Well, crud. Thought I actually knew the answer. At least that is what the website says. If I get corrected then I will update the site.

Alasdair, the now somewhat confused

> -------Original Message-------
> From: Angela Scott 
> Subject: [ANSTHRLD] Submission question
> Sent: 14 May '08 19:40
> 
> Who do I make the check out to that we send in with submissions
> 
> Lady Julianna
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Heralds mailing list
> Heralds at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/heralds-ansteorra.org
> 

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 18:28:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: JOHN KELLER 
Subject: [ANSTHRLD] Halberd Default Question
To: heralds at lists.ansteorra.org
Message-ID: <715093.5488.qm at web51407.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I am working on a Device Submission that contains "2 Halberds in saltire" as the Primary Charge. I understand the "business ends" of the Halberds would default to the chief, but would default also include both the axes (main blades) out and towards the base? Also is there a default tincture for the Halberd? I am assuming wood pole with Argent hardware? I wish to keep the Blazon as brief as possible. 

Many Thanks!

Wolfgang von Sachsenhausen

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 20:29:01 -0500
From: Kathleen O'Brien 
Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] Submission question
To: Alasdair MacEogan , "Heralds List, Kingdom
of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." 
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20080514202901.00f1c7e8 at pop.texas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 08:18 PM 5/14/2008 -0500, you wrote:
>Sorry, as I do not know if you are the local heradl or the submitter, I
will start from the beginning. For reference you can get the info at the
botton of this page ( http://heraldry.ansteorra.org/docs/whosends.php ).
Please someone double check me as i am not 100% sure it is accurate.
>
>The submitter write a check to the local branch (amount is $8 per item
btw. Some have not gotten the word ;-)). The local group will then write
a check for $7 per item made out to SCA Inc. - Kingdom of Ansteorra CoH.
(Hmm. I always thought it it was just SCA Inc. - Kingdom of Ansteorra)
>

Well, when I was creating the first draft of what are now the "current"
forms (I created first drafts for most of the kingdoms), I was told to put
"SCA Inc., Kingdom of Ansteorra" in the instructions line at the bottom.
This was in July of 2006 - so that may be more recent than the page you're
looking at. Or not. 

Mari

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 20:57:20 -0500
From: " Alasdair MacEogan " 
Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] Submission question
To: heralds at lists.ansteorra.org
Message-ID: <20080515015721.20654.qmail at server289.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Kathleen O'Brien wrote:
> Well, when I was creating the first draft of what are now the "current"
> forms (I created first drafts for most of the kingdoms), I was told to put
> "SCA Inc., Kingdom of Ansteorra" in the instructions line at the bottom.
> This was in July of 2006 - so that may be more recent than the page you're
> looking at. Or not. 

That is partly where my confusion comes. I believe the website may well be wrong. Basically my belief was that the CoH did not have its own bank account, so everythign was made out to the Kingdom as the checks were forwarded to the Kingdom Exchequer. But I am more than willing to admit I am wrong. ;-)

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 21:07:29 -0500
From: Kathleen O'Brien 
Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] Submission question
To: Alasdair MacEogan , "Heralds List, Kingdom
of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." 
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20080514210729.00f1c7e8 at pop.texas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>> Well, when I was creating the first draft of what are now the "current"
>> forms (I created first drafts for most of the kingdoms), I was told to put
>> "SCA Inc., Kingdom of Ansteorra" in the instructions line at the bottom.
>> This was in July of 2006 - so that may be more recent than the page you're
>> looking at. Or not. 
>
>That is partly where my confusion comes. I believe the website may well 
>be wrong. Basically my belief was that the CoH did not have its own bank 
>account, so everythign was made out to the Kingdom as the checks were 
>forwarded to the Kingdom Exchequer. But I am more than willing to 
>admit I am wrong. ;-)

I am told the CoH had a bank account once - somewhere back in the very
early 90s. At least when I was Bordure, the CoH did not have it's own bank
account. Instead it had a fund within the kingdom bank account. This was
still true a couple of years ago when Mistress Rondinella was kingdom
treasurer (she & I discussed it at one point).

So, as long as nothing has changed, it's important to know that the money
should get logged to the Heralds fund within the kingdom bank account, but
the money goes into the kingdom bank account.

Mari
(waiting for current kingdom officers like Star or Asterisk to pipe up with
corrections - so I can see what's changed in the last couple of years)

------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 19:33:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bob Wade 
Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] Device
To: "Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc."

Message-ID: <553590.82461.qm at web32903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Ulrich,

Unfortunately, changing from "Azure, a wolf rampant, a chief embattled Or" to "Azure, a wolf rampant within a bordure embattled Or" does not resolve the cited conflict.

Here's the argument from the ICC (Teceangl's correcttion of the RfS quote I used is correct):

Tostig
[Device] Concur with the (ultimate) reblazon "Azure, a wolf rampant, a chief embattled Or."
Consider versus "Azure, a wolf salient and a base engrailed Or." (Rognvaldr Byrgishera?ingr, Nov 99, Device). I see 1 CD for changing from "a chief embattled" to "a base engrailed"
per RfS X4b ("... Changing from a pale wavy to a fess embattled is also one change of type, not a change of type plus a change of edge partition.), but not for a change of posture between "rampant" and "salient".
Teceangl
[Device] The conflict call against Rognvaldr Byrgishera?ingr is solid, there is only the one CD by X.4.e.

Russell S wrote:
Greetings all,

My device registration is #9 on the Feb ICC and since it was kicked back I was wondering if there would be a conflict if I resubmitted it as (Azure, a wolf rampant within a bordure embattled Or), If that is even the correct wording.

I recently became the Herald of Fynnon Gath and am trying to learn as much and as fast as I can.

Thank you all in advance,
Ulrich 

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------------------------------

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End of Heralds Digest, Vol 25, Issue 13
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