[ANSTHRLD] Name documentation (for Sarait)

[Donnchadh Beag mac Griogair]

That was the documentation she used for her original submission, but it 
was returned at Kingdom for "lack of documentation that this name was 
ever used by non-legendary humans." 
http://herald.ansteorra.org/gazette/200512AG.pdf

I'm assuming that the specific rule that was being applied was VI-2

*Names Claiming Powers.* – Names containing elements that allude to 
powers that the submitter does not possess are considered presumptuous.
Society names may not claim divine descent, superhuman abilities, or 
other powers that the submitter does not actually possess. Such claims 
include divine patronymics, like /Vulcanson/ ; epithets peculiarly 
associated with divinities or superhuman beings, such as /of the 
Valkyrie/ ; given names that were never used by humans, like the names 
of some Giants or Dwarves in Norse mythology; or descriptive epithets 
like /Worldblaster/ .

I have to agree with Tadhg concerning the difference between legendary 
(yet still human) and mythical / devine. I would think this 
documentation sufficient to register Sarait.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Donnchadh

ld_tadhg at sbcglobal.net wrote:
> Greetings,
>  
> To the best of my knowledge, O'Corrain and Maguire is still considered a valid source especially when using the headword...which Sarait is (pg 161).
>  
> Sarait is identified as the daughter of Conn Cetchathach. Given that the attribution is "semi-legendary" does not make it anything approaching invalid. There is a great difference between legendary such as Arthur or Gawain and mythical/magical such as Puck. 
>  
> The Irish would have gladly reused legendary names...they would not have done the same for names attibuted to other-worldly beings as that would be an invitation for a visit by the original name-holder. Such visits almost never ended well.
>  
> Given its antiquity, I believe you will probably find the origin of the name in the Annals of the Four Masters...if you have a mind to go skating through that rather lengthy tome.
>  
> Never mind, here it is, Annals of the Four Masters, The Age of Christ 165 (M128, pg 107)
>  
> "Conaire, son of Mogh Lamha, after having been eight years in the sovereignty of Ireland, fell by Neimhidh, son of Sruibhgheann. This Conaire had three sons, Cairbre Musc, from whom the Muscraighe are called; Cairbre Baschaein, from whom are the Baiscnigh, in Corca Baiscinn; and Cairbre Riadal, from whom are the Dal Riada. Saraid, daughter of Conn of the Hundred Battles, was the mother of these sons of Conaire, son of Modh Lamha."
>  
> That translates to Saraid (daughter of Conn of the Hundred Battles) was the wife of Conaire, and mother to Cairbre Musc, Cairbre Baschaein, and Cairbre Riadal.
>  
> Still recommend the notation of OC&M as "Sarait" rather than "Saraid"...believe the latter may be a modern normalization by the translators.
>  
> Regards,
> Tadhg
> ...brick by brick
>
> --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Jennifer Smith <jds at randomgang.com> wrote:
>
> From: Jennifer Smith <jds at randomgang.com>
> Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] Name documentation
> To: "'Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc.'" <heralds at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 9:00 PM
>
> Duncan wrote:
>   
>> Does anyone have a documentation source for Sarait or a 
>> varient (Saraid, 
>> Saereid)?
>>     
>
> Best I've found for Sarait was not very promising at all.
> http://www.s-gabriel.org/916 cites only the undated reference in OC&M, and
> says it refers to a semi-legendary character, and probably wasn't used by
> real people.
>
> <Saereid Sigmundsdottir> was registered by Laurel in April 2001, so I
> went
> to look up the documentation given at the time. According to LoI: 
>
> "Saereid: Swedish feminine given name found in the poetic Edda (Edda
> Sæmundar), translated to Swedish at the Runeberg project
> (http://www.lysator.liu.se/runeberg/eddan/) is usually a good source of
> e-text versions of Norse literature. The specific poem is
> http://www.lysator.liu.se/runeberg/eddan/se-15.html (Kvädet om Helge
> Hjorvardsson). The name given in Swedish is Säreid. 
>
> "As well, the First Lay of Helgi Hjorvarthsson
> http://www.angelfire.com/on/wodensharrow/helgi.html is a source. Therein you
> will find this poem again, with the name of the wife as S{ae}reith. This
> translation is taken from "The Poetic Edda" which is cited as: The
> Poetic
> Edda Translated by Lee M. Hollander © 1962 ISBN 0-292-76499-5 LCCCN
> 61-10045. Fifth paperback printing 1994 University of Texas Press Box 7819,
> Austin, Texas, 78713-7819. While this is still a "translated" source
> for
> these poems, the pages contain rather extensive notes on sources, and uses a
> non-anglicized character set for all names."
>
> The first two links at lysator.liu.se are still good, but the one in the
> last paragraph is gone. Anyway, it still looks likely as a Swedish name.
>
> -Emma
>
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