[ANSTHRLD] Conflict check, please

Jennifer Smith jds at randomgang.com
Tue Oct 21 14:31:10 PDT 2008


Daniel wrote:
> Anyway.  What's a "dogwood flower"?  The only precedent I see is from
> <http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/precedents/wilhelm/wi
> lhelmcombined.html>,
> with
> 
>      The difference between a rose and a dogwood blossom is basically
>      five instead of four petals, plus barbs. There is thus not enough
>      difference. WVS [36] [LoAR 23 Feb 81], p. 7
> 
> So I don't see an SCA definition in compiled precedents.  With so much
> variation, and two different types, and with the ban on Linnaean
> heraldry, I think a good case can be made that "dogwood blossom"
> can't be registered because it's ambiguous and non-reproducable, or at
> least that it's not the dogwood that Americans are familiar with.
> 
> So am I raving insanely again?

Not entirely. You're just missing newer information. From the March 2008
LoAR:

Adaleide de Warewic. Device. Per chevron azure and gules, three
  dogwood blossoms one and two and a tower argent.
[...]
      The submitted device does not conflict with the device for
      Aldgytha of Ashwood, _Per saltire gules and sable, four roses
      argent barbed and seeded proper_. There is a CD for changes to
      the field. Dogwood blossoms are essentially quatrefoils, and
      thus have a CD from roses. This is in line with the precedent:

           {AE}rne Clover. Device. Or, a four-leaved clover
           saltirewise slipped vert. This is clear of conflict
           with Kathleen Regina the Wild Irish Rose, Or, a rose
           vert, its stem nowed sable, in chief two lions rampant
           gules. The type comparison between the primary charges
           in the devices is, effectively, the difference between
           a rose and a quatrefoil, and these two charges have a
           type CD between them: "Quatrefoils and roses do not
           appear to have been considered equivalent charges in
           our period" (LoAR of October 1995). [LoAR 08/2002]

      This overturns the October 1998 precedent (v. David Cade) which
      said that there is no difference between dogwood blossoms and
      roses.


So -- acceptable blazon, four petals instead of five, giving a CD from roses
but not one from other quatrefoils (which means we need to make sure that
category is checked...).

-Emma




More information about the Heralds mailing list