[ANSTHRLD] Tincture Words in Order Names

Kevinkeary at aol.com Kevinkeary at aol.com
Thu Jan 29 19:23:16 PST 2009


Thank you all. The Laurel Precedents on "Order of Plain-English-Color-Name  
Object-Name" vs "Order of the Heraldic-Tincture-Name Object-Name" were what I  
needed.
Kevin
 
 
In a message dated 1/29/2009 7:50:36 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
eirik at hot.rr.com writes:

I'm not  sure exactly where the order name changes are in the cover letter
for  LoAR's but the precedent on grandfathered construction that  Etienne
referred to was about order and award names only.

The  precedent Etienne is looking for is the following:
>From the January  2003 LoAR

Ansteorra, Kingdom of. Award name Award of the Rising Star of  Ansteorra.
This submission is an appeal of the return of Award of the  Rising Star in
September 2001, which stated:

This name is being  returned for lack of documentation of the construction of
the order name.  No documentation was provided, and the College found none,
that an abstract  descriptive such as Rising was used to modify a noun such
as Star in period  order names. Barring such documentation, this name must  be
returned.

Ansteorra has pointed out that Circle of the Ascending  Star was registered
to the Kingdom of Ansteorra in April 1981 and that the  construction used in
Award of the Rising Star of Ansteorra is, therefore,  grandfathered to them.

This submission raised considerable discussion  regarding how the Grandfather
Clause applies to order names. This issue is  most often raised in regards to
adjectives used in order names. Some recent  examples include:

[Order of the Argent Slipper] Meridies already has  several order names of
the type Argent X, so this particular use is  grandfathered to the Kingdom.
[Meridies, Kingdom of, 08/00,  A-Meridies]

[Order of the Dragon's Bowle] The construction Dragon's X  has not been
documented to period. However, the order names Order of the  Dragon's Jewel
(registered August 1987) and Order of the Dragon's Pride  (registered May
1988) are registered to Drachenwald. Therefore, the  construction Order of
the Dragon's X is grandfathered to them so long as  whatever X is falls
within the rather wide span between Jewel and Pride. A  bowl (especially if
it were gold or silver) is an object which could  conceivably fall into the
same category as a jewel, as being part of a  dragon's horde. Therefore, this
order name is registerable. [Drachenwald,  Kingdom of, 02/02, A-Drachenwald]

While use of an adjective, such as  Argent or Dragon's, that does not change
from order name to order name is  the most common application of the
Grandfather Clause in order names, we  have also grandfathered specific
construction types. Some examples  include:

[Order of the Marble Chalice] No documentation was presented  and none was
found that Order of the Marble Chalice follows a pattern used  for period
order names. However, Gleann Abhann has registered Order of the  Onyx Chalice
(registered in September 1998) and Order of the Garnet Chalice  (registered
in September 1998). Since both marble and onyx are types of  stone, Order of
the Marble Chalice follows the same construction pattern as  Order of the
Onyx Chalice and so is registerable via the Grandfather  Clause. [Gleann
Abhann, Principality of, 12/2002, A-Meridies]

[Order  of the Opal] No evidence was presented and none was found of period
order  names based on gemstones. As Atlantia has registered the Order of  the
Pearl, this construction is grandfathered to them. [Atlantia, Kingdom  of,
12/2001, A-Atlantia]

In the first example, the construction  Order of the [type of stone] Chalice
is grandfathered to Gleann Abhann. In  the second example, Order of the [type
of gemstone] is grandfathered to  Atlantia. Award of the Rising Star of
Ansteorra parallels Circle of the  Ascending Star in a manner similar to
these examples. Given these previous  registrations of grandfathering order
name constructions within a narrow  construction type, this order name is
registerable to  Ansteorra.

Note: Ansteorra has a letter of permission to conflict from  the owner of the
household name House Rising Star. The addition of a group  reference, such as
of Ansteorra, is normally transparent for conflict  purposes. However,
previous precedent (including The Order of the White  Scarf of Caid (Caid,
Kingdom of; Acceptances, Caid; April 1997) and Order  of the Golden Swan of
Aneala (Aneala, Barony of; Acceptances, Lochac; July  1999) has ruled that a
group reference is enough difference to clear the  conflict when used in
conjunction with a letter of permission to  conflict.

_______________________________________________
Heralds  mailing  list
Heralds at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/heralds-ansteorra.org


**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De
cemailfooterNO62)



More information about the Heralds mailing list