[ANSTHRLD] Chronological list of groups

[kevinkeary at aol.com]

Kingdom law is subject to Corpora and the Bylaws. My humble opinion is that the first prohibition imposed on provinces by Section 7-B, against creating or supporting subordinate branches, will one day be tested. The second, against creating awards, probably won't be, since the BoD and Corpora for the most part leave awards below the Patent level up to the kingdoms. Still, those are the ONLY two restrictions, implying their relative precedence is WITH the baronies, not behind them, even by kingdom law.

I have no problem with the concept that only Nobles may issue awards. But I DO think that the Kingdom should have created some sort of Comet Plus to be given for service to one of its Provinces at the same time Mooneschadowe was elevated, with the same rank as the Baronial service orders, to better fit the intent of Corpora. I have broached this before, and Emma's point that there is no Comet Light for service to a dependent branch was used to counter it. I do know that, without mentioning names, there ARE members of this College that already want to differentiate between whether a Comet given for Mooneschadowe was given before or after the elevation date, and if after consider it the equivalent of a Baronial service award. Given that, it's only a matter of time before the test is made by nominating to a Crown a holder of a Comet for the Shire of Mooneschadowe to receive a second Comet for the Province of Mooneschadowe. Thus testing whether they are the same award or two different ones.

But, really, this may soon (in historical terms) be moot from another direction. Last weekend I spoke with members of one of the oldest Provinces in the SCA, Tree-Girt Sea in Chicago -- or at least it was until it recently willingly accepted the status of Canton of a multi-canton incipient Barony which will combine five of the six branches in the Chicago area. Rumor hath it that the BoD on High hath decided to discourage the status of Province, possibly ending it in the foreseeable future. But that's not the reason Chicago is going in that direction; they just got tired of the limitations of that status. And while Tree-Girt Sea is easily big enough to be a barony, even in Midrealm, doing it alone would cause political strife with their neighbors. So they hit on this.

There's also a rumor that the BoD has decided that a score to two dozen kingdoms is enough to too much of a good thing, and that other than for reasons of mundane law and national boundaries, no new kingdoms are going to be created, at least after the current incipients are taken care of. Interesting, that.

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: Jennifer Smith <jds at randomgang.com>
Sent: Fri, Nov 6, 2009 12:08 pm
Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] Chronological list of groups



Robin brought up kingdom law on a side note:
 Daniel replied to Donnchadh:

 Do> I would guess that the prov[i]nce comes after the baronies

 Da>Why?  Corpora III.C <http://sca.org/docs/pdf/govdocs.pdf> says... <snip>.

 Meanwhile, back in Ansteorra, kingdom law can and does add more restrictions. 
Allowing a province at all is fairly new in Ansteorra, and they've been given 
estrictions that don't apply to baronies, per kingdom law Article VIII, Section 
.  Precedence is not mentioned, but the tenor of the law is such that I would 
ut all baronies before all provinces.  Two clear facts justify this:
 A. Nobles rank above non-nobles, and a barony is ruled by a noble.
 B. Baronies have armigerous Orders that outrank Comets, given to province and 
hire members.
On the other hand, as precedence is not mentioned in the law at all,
his is a decidedly grey issue. Those two clear facts are same the two
lear facts set forth in Corpora as the distinguishing marks between
aronies and provinces, which are otherwise accorded the same status.
he only difference here is that Corpora explicitly mentions status in
 way that implies precedence equality, and kingdom law mentions
recedence not at all.
Comets can be and have been given to canton members, mind you.
Fortunately, the specifics of this precedence issue is currently moot for us...
-Emma
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