[ANSTHRLD] Fw: Conflict Help

Bob Wade logiosophia at yahoo.com
Sun Apr 11 06:43:28 PDT 2010

The only period arms I can think of that might provide the support requested in the Precedent Magnus cited for this particular submission are the infamous Mortimer Arms.  (Even period heralds could not agree on a consistant blazon)
The Glovers B Roll (Blazon 32 at http://perso.numericable.fr/briantimms1/rolls/gloversB1.htm) transliterates as "Barry, a chief paly, at the corners gyronny Or and azure, overall an escutcheon argent."
--- On Sun, 4/11/10, doug bell <magnus77840 at hotmail.com> wrote:

From: doug bell <magnus77840 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] Fw: Conflict Help
To: heralds at lists.ansteorra.org
Date: Sunday, April 11, 2010, 5:50 AM

Suggested blazon "Per bend barry or and azure and paly azure and  Or."  

This is field only armory so both field and peripheral only types were checked.
No conflicts found.

When I look at this it does weird things to my eyes like an optical illusion.

This may be an heraldic problem since we don't register abstract art or optically
confusion designs.


[September 2003 LoAR, R-Atlantia] Davis de Rowell. Device.
    Paly of four argent and gules, three spur rowels counterchanged
    sable and argent. 

The charges in this device are the default SCA spur rowel, which is a
pierced mullet of six points (as noted in the Pictorial

In general, complex counterchanging was not found in period
armory, probably due to the lack of identifiability of the charges
being counterchanged. This problem applies to this submission, which
is in violation of RfS VIII.3. That rule states, in pertinent part,
"Identifiable elements may be rendered unidentifiable by ...
excessive counterchanging... or by being obscured by other elements
of the design. A complex divided field could obscure the identity of
charges counterchanged." The complex field obscures the identity
of the counterchanged charges in this submission. If it could be
shown that this sort of design was found in period armory, it might
support this design to some extent, but no such documentation has
been provided or found. As noted in the LoAR of October 2001, "In
general, we would like to see documentation for any charge
counterchanged over a multiply divided field, such as barry or

This submission also appears to be overly modern "op-art"
(or "optical art") style. As noted in RfS VIII.4.d,
"Artistic techniques and styles developed after 1600 should not
be used in Society armory. Charges may not be used to create abstract
or op-art designs." Per the on-line Artcyclopedia
(http://www.artcyclopedia.com/), "Optical Art is a
mathematically-oriented form of (usually) Abstract art, which uses
repetition of simple forms and colors to create vibrating effects,
moiré patterns, an exaggerated sense of depth, foreground-background
confusion, and other visual effects." This design is reminiscent
of op-art and includes visually vibrating effects and
foreground-background confusion: one viewer, at first, saw the
primary charge as three lozenges conjoined in pall inverted bases
to center, because she thought that the shape between the three
spur rowels was the primary charge.
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