[ANSTHRLD] Herald's Point Question

[Bob Wade]

I tend to agree with everything Daniel said, including when he oscillated back and forth.
 
Herald's Points didn't exist in Period.  Nobility had personal heralds, squires, pages, etc.  If names were registered they were done with a cleric.  If Arms were assigned they were designed by the College in private.  The closest we can probably come to a medieval ambiance is a Faire.  Tavern signs imply Badges rather than Arms.
 
Heralds at large are offering a service, so the Herald's Badge seems most appropriate.  (At 3 Kings we also use Society Badges of other Offices to indicate the location of vairous activites.)  As Daniel and Robin said, it's the least confusing symbol for the general populace.
 
That's why it's overused.
 
Tostig

--- On Sat, 8/14/10, Tim McDaniel <tmcd at panix.com> wrote:


From: Tim McDaniel <tmcd at panix.com>
Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] Herald's Point Question
To: "Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <heralds at lists.ansteorra.org>
Date: Saturday, August 14, 2010, 11:09 PM


On Sat, 14 Aug 2010, Cisco Cividanes <engtrktwo at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've been thinking about Robin's post.
>
> Robin said:
>> [Mooneschadowe's arms say]  "I am currently speaking for the
>> group's ruling noble. The King and Queen know what I am saying
>> and have directed me to say it."

On a _banner_ or suchlike, I think not.  Were it instead baronial arms
on a _banner_, I would expect the baron/baroness to be there or
nearby, but Mooneschadowe is something of a body corporate.  I don't
know when, say, a livery company of London would have displayed its
arms at a tourney or similar function. ... Just speculating: if they
had a gallery, or a repast, or a gathering of members of the company?

(The case might be stronger were we discussing a tabard instead of a
banner.  I don't know if a livery company of London, say, employed
heralds, but it wouldn't surprise me.)

> Okay, I think this is actually close to what I am looking for. My
> intention is for my herald's point to be the rally point for site
> and list heralds, as well as a place for people to leave notes about
> announcements that need to be made over the course of the day.
...
> Historically, wouldn't the display of the local arms be closer to
> accurate, though?  The reason I ask is that I am keen to "do this
> right", or lacking that, understanding where I am deviating from
> history so I can make sure to pass on both the practical, and the
> historical sides of heraldry to those that I might teach over time.

I am certainly fond of doing things the period way if it's just as
easy to do it authentically as not authentically.  Thing is, I don't
know of a period way of doing this.  I would certainly expect people
to have wanted to make announcements at a fair, for example, but how?
Could someone hire a herald temp, and if so, how would they find him,
except perhaps through connections?  (Make announcements concerning
how to make announcements?)  Were there public services?

The other thing is the "just as easy" part.  People recognize the
crossed trumpets as meaning "generic heraldic services".  Little
education is needed.

So I'd actually suggest using the College of Arms badge unless someone
comes up with a period alternative or a clever suggestion. [1]

Did someone mention finding some actual straight trumpets?

> I have been told that the the green herald's tabard ... means that
> we speak for the college of arms when we wear it (correct me if I'm
> wrong).

It has been used for decades to mean generic herald: someone acting as
a herald for some unspecified person or people.  Different tabards are
worn by people who speak for the College of Arms: they are worn by the
Sovereigns of Arms, one of them wears the godawfullest gaudiest herald
crown you've ever seen, and their tabards bear the arms of the Society
(Or, a laurel wreath vert) not the heralds' badge.

> I have been told that the the green herald's tabard is overused

My opinion is "yes, but ...".  I think it would be ideal if every SCA
group had a set of tabards with the group's arms front, back, and both
sleeves, enough for all the voice heralds needed at their events.  And
some nice white herald staves with nice finials for occasions when
they can be used (I expect they'd work well on a camp cry, but I think
they'd be serious obstacles doing list heralding and impossible doing
court).

Failing that, and given that some people travel and can hardly have a
tabard for each group they visit, a tabard with the herald's badge is
at least functional.

Danielis de Lincolnia

[1] Thinking about it more: I wonder about a tabard with the group's
arms as a static display on a T-pole or the like Since it is not being
worn, nobody is claiming to be the voice of either Mooneschadowe or
the king+queen (depending on how you view the employment situation),
yet it is pretty clearly heraldic for those who have seen tabards, and
a static display (not in a competition) may well be viewed as a
signpost, much like how many signs in period were literal
representations of the thing being vended ...

On more consideration, better to do the heralds' badge of the two
crossed trumpets.  I am not at all certain of the above notion,
and the goal is to communicate without people having to guess.

-- 
Tim McDaniel, tmcd at panix.com
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