[ANSTHRLD] =?X-UNKNOWN?Q?Re=3A_=5BANSTHRLD=5D_Conflict_checking=2C_{TH}orkel?= =?X-UNKNOWN?Q?l_Olf=C3=BAss=2C_Device_blazon_Included?=

[Joshua Brandl]

>Seeing it, and especially the original illo of the device

> 
design, I have a real foreground-background problem: I don't see

>
 "Argent, a saltire nebuly sable", but rather "Sable, four odd

> 
peripheral charges of some sort argent".



Yes, that was sort of the intent, i personally kind of liked the way the
 sides seemed to be "brackets" with large "arrows" pointing to the 
center charge... i was attempting to go with a simple, yet elegant 
central charge... but, alas... i am new, and i am learning...



on the learning note... the email sent earlier from one christie ward. was immensly helpful, my particular persona is displaced scandinavian from end of 11th/early 12th century. ( currently 1110 years progress real-time) does anyone happen to have any links, or even book names that have heraldry from that time frame and culture ? i want something truly unique not just registered unique. any info anyone is able and willing to provide would be a tremendous help...

Jbrandl10

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 08:55:00 -0500
> From: tmcd at panix.com
> To: heralds at lists.ansteorra.org
> Subject: [ANSTHRLD] =?X-UNKNOWN?Q?Re=3A_=5BANSTHRLD=5D_Conflict_checking=2C_{TH}orkel?= =?X-UNKNOWN?Q?l_Olf=C3=BAss=2C_Device_blazon_Included?=
> 
> On Mon, 23 Aug 2010, Joshua Brandl <norfildur at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > The charges, ordinaries and most of the heraldry information i have
> > gathered from the Bingham Collection, a pictorial dictionary of
> > Medieval Heraldry, Armour, Arms, Equipment, Clothing, and Myths.
> > The base image for saltire nebuly is on the page available via the
> > link below. the other charges are on their respective pages.
> >
> > http://heraldry-armoury-and-more.com/picture_library/NNN.htm
> 
> Thank you for pointing out the source.
> 
> It's really odd in this sense: neither the main page nor page N has
> any indication of who Bingham was, what "the Bingham Collection" might
> be (a book? papers of the late Mr. Bingham? collections of facts of
> interest to a living Mr. Bingham?), who authored the text, who is
> maintaining the site, date, links to other pages, e-mail address of
> the maintainer, *anything*.  And Google Search shows nobody referring
> to it except a couple of sites that I can't navigate that seem to be
> scraping info off the Web.
> 
> Anyway, that's by the by.  Looking it over, briefly: it looks like it
> was derived from a Victorian heraldic source of some sort.  Some
> things looked reasonable (horseshoes).  Some made fussy distinctions
> or notions that the SCA and perhaps real-world heraldry doesn't do
> (e.g., nombril point, lioncels).  Some was out of heraldic treatises
> and I don't know that they were done in period (blazoning by planets
> and jewels in "Azure").  There was nonsense too (the "meanings" of
> tinctures and charges).
> 
> If you want a Victorian source, Google for
>      "james parker" heraldry
> to get to <http://www.heraldsnet.org/saitou/parker/>  Lots more info,
> lots more examples, still with the fussy distinctions, not anywhere
> near as much nonsense.  Still not a great guide for SCA purposes,
> but it's good for looking up if someone uses a weird heraldic term.
> 
> As for nebuly: I think I once ran across illustrations of period
> nebuly showing various shapes, including even flatter and bi-lobed
> ones than this ... but since I don't have a source or anything useful,
> that's not data.  For most of the depictions, I'd suggest fewer and
> larger/wider nebules.  But the saltire shown here *is* really too
> large.  Seeing it, and especially the original illo of the device
> design, I have a real foreground-background problem: I don't see
> "Argent, a saltire nebuly sable", but rather "Sable, four odd
> peripheral charges of some sort argent".
> 
> Danielis de Lindecolina
> -- 
> Tim McDaniel, tmcd at panix.com
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