[ANSTHRLD] {TH}orkell {o,}lf_ss - another device attempt
doug bell
magnus77840 at hotmail.com
Thu Aug 26 01:19:38 PDT 2010
There is an earlier ruling on Reyna.
Magnus
[August 2006 LoAR, R-Northshield] Reyna Thorne. Device.
Gyronny arrondi sable and argent, a mullet of eight points counterchanged.
This device is returned for conflict with the badge of Anna af Aarnimetsä,
Gyronny sable and argent, a mullet counterchanged. There is a CD but not a
substantial difference between a mullet (of five points) and a mullet of
eight points. While in the past a CD has been granted for quarterly versus
quarterly arrondi (q.v. Br{o,}ndólfr the Stout, 03/03, A-Middle), there is
no difference between gyronny and gyronny arrondi (q.v. Ingvarr Halvarson, 07/05, R-Outlands).
The 2003 ruling was not clear whether it applied only to quarterly arrondi or to all arrondi fields.
At this time we are explicitly ruling that there is not a CD between gyronny and gyronny arrondi.
> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 02:29:01 -0500
> From: tmcd at panix.com
> To: heralds at lists.ansteorra.org
> Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] {TH}orkell {o,}lf_ss - another device attempt
>
> On Thu, 26 Aug 2010, Joshua Brandl <norfildur at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Gyronny arrondi sable and argent, a mullet of eight points pierced counterchanged
> >
> > http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll227/aednial/Gyronnyarrondi.gif
>
> Thanks for the larger image. Seeing it, I think more strongly that it
> should be returned for excessive counterchanging and modern style (op
> art). Though further research might affect that: just looking thru
> the Armorial, there are some gyronny counterchanged things out there.
>
> Possibly clear of conflict. An *almost* identical design was on the
> 7/09 LoAR:
>
> Reyna Thorne. Device. Gyronny arrondi sable and argent, a mullet
> of eight points counterchanged.
>
> This device is returned for conflict with the badge of Anna af
> Aarnimets{a:}, "Gyronny sable and argent, a mullet
> counterchanged." There is a single CD for the difference
> between a mullet of five points and a mullet of eight points,
> but no difference between gyronny and gyronny arrondi. ...
>
> [stuff about a letter of permission to conflict that is not
> applicable here]
>
> In addition, the submitted device conflicts with the device
> for Endymion Meilichos, "Gyronny sable and argent, a mullet of
> eight points between eight others in annulo all
> counterchanged." There is a single CD for changing the number
> of mullets. ...
>
> (Francois's regulation time precedents has a precedent on Br{o,}nd_lfr
> the Stout, 03/03, A-Middle, giving a CD for arrondi for a quarterly
> field. Given the above, I'm not sure whether this has been overruled,
> or whether there's a distinction between quarterly and gyronny. But
> the above return post-dates this, so this doesn't help.)
>
> But there's this from Elsbeth's precedents:
>
> [a compass star pierced] After much thought, we decided that
> piercing is worth a CD when drawn large enough to be equivalent to
> adding a tertiary charge, as it is done here; i.e. when it is
> clearly visible and takes up much of the space available to
> it. [Sebastian of Dragon's Mist, 12/99, A-An Tir]
>
> A mullet of twelve points pierced got a CD for piercing (Buyan Delger,
> 3/07 LoAR). However, piercing in other cases may not be a CD. For
> example, Fekete Rosa (9/05) didn't get a CD for piercing cinquefoils,
> and I think I hit an earlier precedent that said that piercing
> cinquefoils was an artistic variation, and Elen Benet (1/05) even got
> the piercing taken out of the blazon.
>
> So I think this is clear, but (unless there are precedents) I still
> think it should be returned for excessive counterchanging and op art.
>
> Dankyn de Linccolne
> --
> Tim McDaniel, tmcd at panix.com
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