[ANSTHRLD] Eldwin's Submission II

Tue Jul 27 15:29:21 PDT 2010

Aaand, apparently it doesn't matter anyway.

To my utter surprise and supreme disappointment, current precedent disallows this device:

>From the LoAR for December 2009:
--------
Nest verch Rodri ap Madyn. Device change. Per bend sinister azure and vert, a mullet voided and interlaced within and conjoined to an annulet argent and an open book Or. 

Precedent, set on the Cover Letter for the March 2009 LoAR, says:

When both are present in a design as part of a primary charge group, or where they would be expected to be a secondary charge, the widget and annulet will both be considered part of the same group.

In this submission, the mullet, annulet, and book are considered to form a single primary charge group on the field. Therefore, this device is returned for violating section VIII.1.a of the Rules for Submissions, which says that "three or more types of charges should not be used in the same group."

----------

The mullet and annulet are considered separate charges in a charge group. If they are a secondary charge group, this device has a conflict. If they are two of three charges in the primary charge group, this is a slot machine.

Can period examples of pentacles being considered single, whole charges and not a charge group be produced? If so, Lauel may be convinced to overturn this ruling for the specific case of voided and interlaced five-pointed mullets conjoined to a surrounding annulet. But it will take an appeal to Laurel.

Kevin the Irritated

-----Original Message-----
From: kevinkeary at aol.com
To: heralds at lists.ansteorra.org
Sent: Tue, Jul 27, 2010 4:34 pm
Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] Eldwin's Submission II

I'm not sure what the term should be. A mullet voided should have none of the 
nner lines, it should look like a mullet surmounted by another of the field. 
'm sure there is a term for this, and maybe I'm wrong and interlaced will work.
evin

----Original Message-----
rom: Eldwin Nightowl <eldwin at loveshade.org>
o: Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA Inc.Heralds List <heralds at lists.ansteorra.org>
ent: Tue, Jul 27, 2010 4:14 pm
ubject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] Eldwin's Submission II

hanks a lot.  I had wondered about calling it interlaced.  I actually have two 
awn versions of it, the other where the pentacle is smaller, but the submitter 
efers the pentacle as drawn in the link.  If it is submitted so the blazon 
ts the depiction at http://eldwin.loveshade.org/images/ms_device.jpg, would 
e blazon be:
urpure, in pale a mullet of five points voided within and conjoined to an 
nulet Or and a mermaid in her vanity proper.
ldwin Nightowl

-- On Tue, 7/27/10, kevinkeary at aol.com <kevinkeary at aol.com> wrote:
rom: kevinkeary at aol.com <kevinkeary at aol.com>
bject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] Eldwin's Submission II
: heralds at lists.ansteorra.org
te: Tuesday, July 27, 2010, 12:34 PM

vice commentary only. I bow to Alasdair on the name.
he two charges are of equal weight, and this should be blazoned
rpure, in pale a mullet of five points voided and interlaced within and 
njoined to an annulet Or and a mermaid in her vanity proper
o blazon the pentacle as 'interlaced', the interlacings should be shown via 
ternal detailing, which arm goes over and which under at each crossing.
s you have it blazoned, with the mermaid as primary, it should be larger and 
e pentacle smaller. However, it is in conflict with Sabine d'Angers
rpure, a mermaid in her vanity proper crined Or a ford proper
th only the change of secondary from a pentacle in chief to a ford in base. At 
ast, I'm pretty sure the difference in position of the secondary counts as 
thing.
s it is depicted, however, with two primary charges, I found no conflicts.
----Original Message-----
om: Eldwin Nightowl <eldwin at loveshade.org>
: heralds at lists.ansteorra.org <heralds at lists.ansteorra.org>
nt: Tue, Jul 27, 2010 1:02 pm
bject: [ANSTHRLD] Eldwin's Submission II
roposed name for SCA member Miley Spears: Ariel Lovechild
IEL
iel appears in the Bible in Ezra 8:16, Isaiah 29:1-2, Isaiah 29:7, and in 
liam Shakespeare's play The Tempest (for a list of Ariel's quotes, see 
p://www.opensourceshakespeare.org/views/plays/characters/charlines.php?CharID=Ariel&WorkID=tempest).
iel of Glastonbury Tor was Calontir's first female knight and reigned three 
es as Queen  http://calontir.sca.org/herald/armorial/Pages/Lineage.htm
VECHILD
hn Lovechild is listed at http://www.archive.org/stream/englishsurnamest00bardiala#page/572
e name was used by William Lovechild circa 1248 and Henry Lovechild circa 1327 
ording to page 235 of A Dictionary of English Surnames by Percy Hide Reaney, 
hard Middlewood Wilson  http://books.google.com/books?id=fPoujUPs3hYC&pg=PR7&lpg=PR7&dq=A+dictionary+of+English+surnames+By+Percy+Hide+Reaney,+Richard+Middlewood+Wilson&source=bl&ots=RVq_WAU_9j&sig=56LCxbozDeGQIo169L6mRcnfaYc&hl=en&ei=BZdHTPysL-aN4gad073VAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=lovechild&f=false
VICE
bmitted device is (I believe the blazon would be):
urpure, a mermaid in her vanity proper, in chief a mullet of five points voided 
nd interlaced within and conjoined to an annulet Or.
u can see it at http://eldwin.loveshade.org/images/ms_device.jpg
ote that a pentacle or pentagram is now accepted in SCA heraldry.  For 
erence, see  http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/loar/2009/03/09-03lar.html#8  
 look under Ailis Linne.
ermaid/Merman -- a seamonster with the body of maiden conjoined with a fish's 
l. It is usually depicted with mirror and comb, and in that position is 
zoned as a mermaid in her vanity. Mermaids are erect affronty by default, and 
rmaid proper is a caucasian human with green tail and yellow hair -- for the 
e of Tincture a mermaid is considered to be neutral. " according to 
p://heralds.westkingdom.org/CommonBlazonKnowledge.htm
 my blazon right?  Any conflicts?  This have a chance of passing?  Thanks.
dwin Nightowl
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