[ANSTHRLD] Device illustration [Hope the pic comes thru]

Kevinkeary kevinkeary at aol.com
Fri Apr 22 10:49:02 PDT 2011

You may be under a misapprehension of the power of the word "proper". There was a time when styling something as "proper" allowed you to place color on color or metal on metal. Here, color means dark (red, black, blue, green, purple) and metal means light (white, yellow). That is no longer the case. Now, proper tinctures, furs et al are considered light or dark depending on their principal tincture. (Vair is an exception; it really is half light and half dark.)

The only way to place dark on dark today is one of:

Either the charge or the thing the charge is on must be half color and half metal -- and the tinctures that are in the same group (light or dark) still have to have 'sufficient contrast'. Blue on purple or red on purple will almost certainly not fly. So you could not put a red herring on a field striped red and yellow, but you could on a field striped black and yellow.


You must document the color combination you want to use as being used in period and preferrably appropriate for the time and culture you will be re-creating, preferrably with multiple citations.

An overall charge like your phoenix is counted against the field, the black shield. The fact that it also overlays the white bendlets doesn't mean anything where this rule is concerned. Your phoenix is not on a half-white, half black background, it is on a black background. (This is a rule I personally don't like, but it is the rule as the rules stand.) 
To be placed on the black field, with or wihout the intervening bendlets, it and its flames must be half yellow (Or) or all yellow. If the yellow is percieved by the College as being a negligible outlining, it will be ignored. If it is seen as an attempt at fimbriating, it will be rejected because the phoenix is not a sufficiently-simple charge.

To be on a half and half background, you would actually have to stripe the whole shield black and white and call it "Bendy sable and argent". There would need to be the same number of black and white stripes. The stripe that occupies the top left corner, or the top half of that corner if two stripes meet there, would be the tincture you mention first. The stripes could still be engrailed if you like, and in that case all the points would point up and to the right.

I'm sorry I wasn't sufficiently clear with that before.


-----Original Message-----
From: charles armitage <charlesarmitage at yahoo.com>
To: Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA,Inc. <heralds at lists.ansteorra.org>
Sent: Fri, Apr 22, 2011 10:59 am
Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] Device illustration [Hope the pic comes thru]

I realize I had said "or" in this, I actually meant to leave that out, this 
hoenix is suppose to be "Proper" along with the flames but this was the best my 
friend could come up with lol I would of course paint it without it looking as 
f it has "Fimbriation"
o more like:
Sable, two bendlets engrailed argent, overall a Phoenix issuant from flames 
I'll look thru the list, I do hope you get to feeling better!

d Kylan Ulfgierrson mka Charles
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than 
alf of you half as well as you deserve." 

rom: Tim McDaniel <tmcd at panix.com>
o: "Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." 
heralds at lists.ansteorra.org>
ent: Fri, April 22, 2011 10:53:15 AM
ubject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] Device illustration [Hope the pic comes thru]
On Fri, 22 Apr 2011, charles armitage <charlesarmitage at yahoo.com> wrote:

Excellent bendlets engrailed!  I like them.  Kudos!
"Fimbriation" is the outline of a charge with another tincture.  It's
llowed in the SCA only for simple geometric charges.  Neither this
hoenix nor this flame qualify.  There is ... a lot of fimbriation
In another message, you mentioned a phoenix Or.  The body of the bird
hen needs to be *all gold*.  Also, the flames underneath need to be
lternating tongues of yellow and red -- not with outlining, but
http://oscar.sca.org/ lets you see submissions made to Laurel.  Most
ave been registered, but some have been returned, so don't assume
hat if any one thing you see there must be OK.  If you search for
phoenix", you get 82 hits.  Many of them are in color and can show
ou depictions of phoenices.  If you click on a picture, you usually
et a larger depiction of it.
For example,
ooks pretty good to me, in terms of solid coloring of the phoenix and
lternating tongues of proper flame.
I'm sorry if this isn't quite coherent, as I'm suddenly feeling a bit
nder the weather and need to lie down.
Danielis Lindum Colonia
- Tim McDaniel, tmcd at panix.com
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